"Master Segal Taught me that Kick" - Anderson Silva

Discussion in 'MMA, Boxing & Other Combat Sports' started by OurSin, Feb 6, 2011.

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  1. Tha Cunnysmythe

    Tha Cunnysmythe Unsavoury Negroid

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    TKD definitely has its uses, I think. Just last week Joe Rogan was showing GSP how to do a spinning back kick more efficiently and effectively, and you can tell GSP learned from it.
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  2. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    This is actually a sensible post but I think we have to take a deeper look into the accuracy of various assumptions and presumptions.Your comment here:"I think they can be effective if they are learned with live sparring." tends to suggest strongly that you believe that TMA doesn't emphasize live sparring.The exact opposite is the case; live sparring literally has its roots in traditional martial arts (TMA).Now,the question becomes: do TMA practitioners tend to spar in ways that are most conducive to MMA matches? Not in general, to my knowledge.The converse is also true...most MMA guys would get annihilated in TMA matches.Take any non-TMA based MMA guy you can name and put him/her in a bareknuckle 100 to 400 man kumite.They'll be annihilated.Quickly.Same with K-1 guys.This is not speculation because these things have already happened.In K-1 rules,MMA guys without a kickboxing main root background have gotten brutally knocked out for years...dating back to just before Ernesto Hoost crushed Igor Vovchanchin. The converse is true...a K-1 champ would get quickly taken down and submitted if he just saunters into a MMA judo,sambo,bjj,etc. match.Michael Mcdonald v Lyoto Machida springs swiftly to mind.K-1 or MMA guys going into TMA tourneys get speedily KO'd...like Remy did when he entered a high end bareknuckle tourney and every MMA guy had a similar fate when he entered events like the amazing and highly underrated SHIDOKAN aka the TRIATHLON OF MARTIAL ARTS. We cannot rigorously conclude like most MMA noobies and many MMA pundits conclude that MMA is inherently superior to other sport combat forms;instead we can conclude that MMA reflects more of the reality of a streetfight but still doesn't match the King of Street Fight Reality tourneys visavis extreme conditions,the TMA called KALI TUDO which is popularized by THE DOG BROTHERS.(KALI TUDO is basically MMA with live hand held nonfirearm weapons.I mean you can use whips,swords,whatever...LIVE WEAPONS NO FAKES...and you just go at it.With zero to very very minimal protective gear.) What all available evidence seems to more thoroughly support is a premise that we're already familiar with: train to perform under the conditions that you will find yourself in.So if it's a MMA match? Train with MMA matches in mind.Does that mean you have to completely subscribe to the MMA main methods and arts to excel at MMA? NO. Cung Le,Chuck Liddell,Vitor Belfort,Anderson Silva,GSP,Hector Lombard,and many more champs do not come from a "classic" MMA base and they perform accordingly.They are certainly not "sloppy" in their execution of technique.I would also advise you to check out international matches and matches from places like SHOOTO or RINGS and see the incredible smooth technique.

    As for karate's technique looking sloppy? Well...


    ANDY HUG V MUAY THAI'S LEGENDARY CHANGPHUEK KIATSONGRIT
    YouTube - Andy Hug vs Changphuak Kiatsongrit

    remember guys that in bareknuckle karate matches bareknuckle fist blows are illegal.Kicks elbows knees etc. are fine but not fists.I think nowadays they've disallowed elbows too...but notice that the technical execution and skill is quite high and nowhere near sloppy.

    MASAAKI SATAKE V ANDY HUG,1993 SEIDOKAIKAN WORLD CUP

    YouTube - seidokaikan karate world cup 1993 final: Hug vs Satake, part 1/2

    There's A LOT MORE,but this should get you started if you wish to keep delving into the fact that karateka have beautiful technique that isn't like sloppy boxing or kickboxing.

    Then there's "EXTREME CQB",which adds firearms escapes and multifights to KALI TUDO.In a nutshell "EXTREME CQB" is a term I coined and reflects the way in which I train my clientele and myself for combatives.The athletic training I give--from fitness and yoga to whatever sport my client plays--is of course different.So imho it's all about training methodology,which in turn is impacted by knowledge base,which is guided by "purpose of training". MMA guys are prizefighters.Period.They're very good at competing under their rules or situations approximating their rules,wherever that situation arises.There is much to be learned from them.TMA's purpose is different and more comprehensive: it's designed to make BETTER HUMAN BEINGS using the martial path as the main method of self-transformation.It's EXTREMELY GOOD at that.
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  3. jayoo

    jayoo new york representative

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    yeah gsp just said in a Q&A with dana that rogan has the best spinning back kick hes ever seen in his life and that if rogan ever landed it on someone they'd go down 100% haha
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  4. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    I regularly land the lead side kick on guys who stand in the traditional MT stance
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  5. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

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    I'm not going to dispute your view. TMA's like Karate, TKD, HPK, Aikido, etc, can be effective. I guess the disconnect is that I am speaking in terms of what is available in the west. In Europe and North America, the vast majority of schools that teach those arts are crap. So to find a good school for that you have to really seek it out or go to the country of origin, either way for Westerners it's not very practical to chance learning one of those TMAs when you could get at least decent instruction in boxing/thai boxing, judo/bjj, and wrestling more easily.
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  6. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

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    That youtube video with Andy Hug against the Thai guy. What are the rules? Why does the guy stop whenever he gets hit in the face?
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  7. Tha Cunnysmythe

    Tha Cunnysmythe Unsavoury Negroid

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    lol yeah, I saw that yesterday.

    Here's the original clip of Rogan teaching the kick to GSP:



    The kick is at 14:31.
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  8. OurSin

    OurSin lol @ equality

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    looks like no punches to the face...smh
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  9. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    In bareknuckle karate,there used to be punches to the face allowed.But many broken bones,semi-numerous severe injuries,and a few deaths occurred over a century or so of international challenge matches so the rules were modified for tourney competition when you attract the thousands that come from all over the world to bareknuckle tournies.In smaller competitions,bareknuckle face contact is allowed and encouraged.
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  10. Riot

    Riot The Dark Hero.

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    Exactly, that's why Randy is so good in the clinch (imo) he doesn't waste energy like other do.

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    Biotch! You wish you had a phone like mine...
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  11. Riot

    Riot The Dark Hero.

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    UFC and other MMA organized fighting is all purely circumstance and situation fighting.

    It's fun to watch as a macho man type shit, but as far as fluid techniques and true skills it's rarely seen.


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    Biotch! You wish you had a phone like mine...
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  12. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    Absolutely man.Same for Anderson,Jon Jones,GSP,Kenflo,Frankie Edgar,BJ PENN,Jose Aldo,Lyoto Machida,Rua,Cung Le,Jacare,both Cyborgs,Diaz,Karo,that dope Korean UFC judoka whatshisname,and a whole host of "lesser lights" in the UFC and other spots like Japan are magnificent in the clinch.
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  13. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    I agree with this completely.Magnificent skill in every range is practically nonexistent in American MMA,but that will change dramatically over the next decade.More professionals from boxing,kickboxing,and far more Olympians will flock to MMA and cause a dramatic spike in quality technique and the quality of combatants.The day of the relative MMA noobie going from enthusiastic amatuer to MMA pro in mere months will be gone forever...to the BETTERMENT of MMA.There will also hopefully be a more dedicated "amatuer" league for MMA enthusiasts to hone their skill and acquire experience.Every other professional combat sport has "feeder systems" and American MMA as a whole desperately needs feeder systems like amatuer MMA and low-to-moderate paying pro MMA circuits before athletes should graduate to the big stages.
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