Marriage & Last Names

Discussion in 'Ladies Lounge' started by Lost Prophet, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    Why do I feel guilty for following this conversation? Like I'm eavesdropping or something?

    C'mon guys.. kiss and make up, already :)
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  2. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    ^Are they going together?

    Anyway, Sami and tights, what would you do if you can't find a guy who will marry you with a hyphenated or maiden name?
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  3. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    Yep, I think they're a couple IRL... someone here mentioned it and Drew confirmed it.

    And, it depends. Marriage isn't a goal for me, to be honest with you... if I never married, I would be perfectly fine with that. I tend to look for men who are likeminded, so the type of man that I would consider marrying wouldn't likely be one who was hell bent on me changing my name... at least not without a damn compelling argument as to why I should.
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  4. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    ^How cute... if my wife saw some of the things I post on here, I'd be divorced by now... he he... (shhh, don't tell, okay?)

    And haven't I given you some compelling arguements? And don't you like Morris Chestnut? So you wouldn't change your name to Tight-eyes Chestnut?

    If wifey and I don't work out, I might change my name to Konscious Milian.
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  5. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    One of the reasons I don't answer some of the more personal questions. Shit, you never know...

    I don't recall any, no. And I luv me some Morris... but, again, he'd have to have some legitimate reason as to why it was so important to him for me to change my name.

    You should change it to Konscious Spears... I hear Suga' Mama is openin up shop, again!
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  6. samii so sexii

    samii so sexii ..sunkist siren..

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    wow who's being an ass. All I said was that by the looks of things, I'm not getting married anytime soon, and that I have my whole life ahead of me...I don't know how that road is going to twist, but it's going to be positive.

    you are the one that decided to be rude by stating that you hope the rest of my life turns out better than the prequel. I could've been as ass back to you, but I didn't...don't talk shit on a messageboard of all places.

    @ Tights: i would love to kiss and make up...but two stubborn people both tryin to be captain of one boat just isn't floating very well.
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  7. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I don't care... this place (all of RM, actually) is like my diary... I'm just as real offline, but I have to tone down some things to her because she's so sensitive.


    Check page 1 of this thread.

    Naaah, I'd just hit it and quit it... Britney is an idiot and she'd want a pre-nup... screw that noise.

    I absolutely love Christina... she's my Janet Jackson of the new millenium.
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  8. eatemup

    eatemup New Member

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    the way I see it if a female marrys you she should take your last name period
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  9. Speedy Gunzalez

    Speedy Gunzalez Awareness is my Alias

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    Peace Brother,

    It has been a minute. I am in my first semester in the graduate program for sociology, so life has been wild hectic for me. I just finished my statistics exam, which was intense. How's the universe treatin you?

    I realize that we are addressing things relating to marital issues between men and women. However, insofar as your conception of marriage forecloses the idea of same-gendered individuals from potentially achieving this marital status... is it homophobic. But this is a subordinate issue, that we can take up later, as it does not immediately concern us. So let us get back, brother, to the topic particularly to the things that you have raised in my initial response to you.

    You want to "throw the male domination/patriarchical argument out the window," but I don't think you realize how it is inseparably tied down to the heavy anchor of oppression. What do I mean? Dig it... you implicitly recognize the reproduction of patriarchy and male domination through the assignment of last names to women from men (e.g., husbands and father). But you fail to recongize how patriarchy and notions of andrcentrism are tied to this age-old male dominated surname ceremony in which women become property of the men they marry. Perhaps, you know this and you are moved to ask me how this is beneficial to women--whether hyphenated or not it is still the name of a man. It may be your contention that a hyphenated name is doubly oppressive because it is the name of TWO MEN!!

    Well, brother, let me give my interpretation of a possible answer to this query. Sami wonderfully brought up the idea about how her last name in a sense was bequeathed to her without her consent. I mean this is not far fetched right, the sista at a young age took the the last name of her daddy and this is the last name that she bears today. Seems pretty normal, traditional, and dare I say,...natural. Women have being strongly encouraged and socialized both by men, society, and probably other women, that once she marries to take the last name of husband. Where am I going with this? All of this is to highlight that women have not had a choice about a particular aspect of their identity. About how she chooses to craft the image of her "self." But because masculinity, as I mentioned earlier, is so entangled with the idea of a women being a man's property (although it has taken on more subtler forms in modern times), that she is viewed by society, or even worse her (prospective) husband, as a "rebel" or "feminist" (the eff word!!), or man-hater, or any other pejorative term used when a women tries to exercise a little autonomy.

    So although her surname is that of a man's (reflecting the male-dominated system that we live in), if a sister chooses to hyphenate her last name because she feels a subjective connection to her maiden name then so be it. You may even consider it a site of resistance, challenging the system of male domination that has for too long told her how to call herself. And now she is actively engaged in constructing an image for herself, so if a hyphenated last name is how she wants to be identified then it is her prerogative. And some who do not wish to adopt her husband's last name after marriage at all--hyphenated or otherwise.

    Brother, I know you are acutely aware of racial oppression and if you don't think racism, sexism, classism, homophobia and other systems of oppression are not simultaneously contraining us (black folk) than you need to read: bell hooks, Audre Lorde, Patricia Hill Collins. These sisters eloquently paint the picture of the multi-headed monster that keeps us in this "trap" that contemporary rappers are talkin bout. I encourage you to seek new ways of thinking as you move toward a higher level of consciousness.

    one love, brother...
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  10. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    I hear ya. I just don't think its wise to disclose any and everything. Folks get caught up like that - the internet is not as anonymous as we used to think it was.


    I did.


    Yeah, the girl is ridiculously pretty. *stroking goatee* Thats good taste you have, my friend... good taste.
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  11. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    Damn, speedy! All those big ass words... lol.

    *reaching for my dictionary*
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  12. ~S*T*A*R*M~

    ~S*T*A*R*M~ Goddess

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    And the plot thickens...... Great argument! I can't even challenge anything you said, even for the sake of this argument (as t.i.r.e.d. as it is!).
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  13. ~S*T*A*R*M~

    ~S*T*A*R*M~ Goddess

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    Do tell, how is this a sign of disrespect?

    Secondly, what does "giving your all" to ones husband entail?
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  14. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    Interesting point... but I don't believe he gave his complete concept of marriage. The topic centered around men and women.

    His basic premise is "women who don't take their husband's (male) last name are being disrespectful." It's quite a reach to presuppose his view of homosexuals being allowed to marry from that statement alone.

    You make excellent points and I really admire your ability to reason with logic, unlike some folks here, even though we may differ in views... but I have to ask, given all that you have stated, I still want to know how maintaining a maiden or hyphenated name allows a woman to "exercise a little autonomy?"

    If you agree that the patriarchal legacy continues with the use of any of those names, then how does this free her if taking on a man's name is, as you put it, "male domination"?

    I fail to see the logic in that.

    It appears to me that she is still in a "prison," given the logic that a man's name equals oppression, and she is just choosing from choices that were still bequeathed to her through patriarchal legacy. Why not invent a new name altogether if you're really seeking "freedom?"

    Still wouldn't this reconstructed image of self still be tainted with a male's name?
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  15. sagacious infant

    sagacious infant reflecting the sun

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    To preserve heritage. For children's children's children to be able to trace back all of their family - not just on the paternal side, but also the maternal side. I don't think it's always about rebellion.

    Also, I feel Tights on the degree thing. What if she were the first person in her family to obtain a doctorate. Why shouldn't she go by the name on her degree and make her family proud?

    P.S. sorry - I didn't read any pages but the first one - so my bad if any of what I said has already been said.
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  16. Speedy Gunzalez

    Speedy Gunzalez Awareness is my Alias

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    Peace Brother Kon,

    Allow me to address the issues you have raised, I'll be brief:

    A. In the face of pervasive oppression, the oppressed always seeks forms or spaces of resistance where they may seemingly escape complete domination. In a society teeming with gender roles and expectations that are ultimately advantageous for the male, I ask you brother, why could not a woman construct her own "image of self?" Why can't she freely choose how she wishes to identify herself?

    If a woman chooses to wittingly rebel against having her husband's last name assigned to her, do not see it as challenge against your manhood or the sanctity of your marriage. Rather, essay to envision this action as a step toward the path of liberty; and also as opposition to the system of domination that circumscribes her ability to make particular life choices.

    B. It is important to stress that a woman will not be liberated from "prison," if she legally changes her last name. There are structural mechanisms that operate in society to perpetuate inequality--the custom of a wife taking her husband's name being one of its many manifestations. However, resisting tradition and gender roles/expectations is marching towards freedom and liberation. Further, this resistance (or exercise of autonomy) should not be exclusively tied to an issue for women, it is inextricably linked to the development of humanity.

    One Love!
    test
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