Discussion in 'MMA, Boxing & Other Combat Sports' started by ANDtheMC, Dec 3, 2008.
^^^ Ok... I respect that.
My mistake he is a Black belt under Bustamante. I however stand by what i said about his Judo. i remember seeing tons of stuff on it right before he fought Dan Henderson.
either way i think Maia is the better grappler. would be a great fight though.
I dunno how to post videos on this forum but here's some links that show how devastating Palhares is... AND REMEMBER, THESE ARE IN MMA SITUATIONS...
YouTube - Rousimar "Toquinho" Palhares vs. Flávio Luiz Moura
That's just disgusting... Arm bar transition into a sweep into a heel hook... Beautiful....
YouTube - FURY FC 5 - Rousimar Palhares x Fábio Negão
Two broken limbs... Toquinho is a MONSTER!
And again, you're wrong. I watched ALL the pre videos before the Henderson/Palhares fight and watched that fight at least a dozen times. Toquinho has not trained in Judo... It's jiu-jitsu... Go read his bio... No judo mentions...
dont get me wrong i love toquinho. demians bjj is simply better. palhares' bjj is great, but its as simple as this: he hasn't competed to prove it. maia is a 2 time world champ and adcc champ. he has beaten tons of big names. he has beaten jacare, he has beaten saulo ribeiro, he has beaten rafael lovato, yushin okami, david avallen, tarsys humphreys, flavio almeida, etc. he just has too many credentials. toquinho doesn't. simple as that. he has proven himself more. thats it.
^^^ Doesn't tapping out Nogeuira, Ricardo Arona, and Paulo Filho regularly count? Remember, Nogueira is also close to 60 lbs heavier than Toquinho is...
And I have to bring up that Frank Mir example again. Mir vs. Traven. Go watch it... Traven was a two time world champ... Mir was a purple belt. Mir broke his arm with an arm bar...
no... it doesn't count. sure it means SOMETHING but its just not equal to the credentials that maia has. rolling is not the same as fighting in a bjj match. plus that is here say. i know its possible for non world champs to tap out world champs, but until toquinho taps out maia, maia remains the better bjj fighter. toquinho is the one who has something to prove. maia has already proved himself.
I can't fully agree with that. It was obviously Toquinho's choice to not join the World Championships. In that time, he was fighting in other MMA tournaments and won a championship belt there... And in that run, he was tapping out his opponents in an average of less than 2 minutes. Now this isn't just jiu-jitsu tournaments where all you're going for is subs. This is where you have to worry about striking and grappling.
I think that would be like saying a fighter is better than another fighter that's same weight division with similar credentials in different fields but just happened to fight in Pride while the other fought in UFC. It's not like Toquinho wasn't blowing away competition as well. It was just in MMA instead of straight jiu-jitsu.
I go with what I see over just the trophies. The trophies are great and all but I like to see the skill as well. I'm not gonna say I'm 100% sure Toquinho's BJJ is better than Maia's but from what I see, I just think he's more explosive into his subs...
But I can't blame anybody for believing Maia's BJJ is better either. Both of 'em are just so extraordinary at it...
yeah i wasn't even talking about the mma aspect (although i believe maia would win there too) i was referring to our previous discussion of whose bjj is better.
with those trophies comes skill.. it takes incredible skill to be the world champ twice and adcc champ (among countless other titles, those are just the biggest).
sure, toquinho chose not to compete. but i see it like this.
lets say maia holds the world record for ... idk.... most hot dogs eaten..... and toquinho has been said to be just as good, although he has never tried to get the world record. until he actually gets that, or beats maia, maia is still the best. thats my stupid drunk analogy, but i think you get the idea.
i still haven't seen where it was said that toquinho taps out filho and nog rolling, he could, but thats not the same thing. i'll take your word for it. when i said that maia beat jacare, saolo, lovato, gonzaga (who also has a significant weight advantage- 75 pounds), those credentials are simply better. and he has yet to lose, so until toquinho beats maia, he remains inferior in my book. think what you want, maia's history is just objectively more impressive.
It was said during the fight between Henderson and Palhares. They said people who train with Palhares have said that Toquinho taps them out "regularly"... Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan were talking about how amazing Palhares's jiu-jitsu is....
And I still have to disagree... Because I don't think that analogy works. I think a better analogy would be saying Maia has the GUINESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS (so it's actually be tracked) for eating the most hot dogs. But many people have seen Toquinho eat just as much but it wasn't actually input in the Guiness Book of World Records. Cuz the shit I've seen Palhares do is just as if not more impressive than Maia's submission-wise.... Again, I think both are INCREDIBLE jiu-jitsu guys. I only dream of getting as nice as they are... So it's no disrespect to Maia... He's one of my favorite MMA fighters (heavy bias for jiu-jitsu fighters)
well agree to disagree... i hope the day comes when we find the answer!! just realizes your whole argument is based on here-say
I know... I was REALLY hoping after Palhares beat Hendo (which he didn't but whatever) he'd get a shot with Maia so there wouldn't be any controversy over who's the top dog in the middleweight division as far as jiu-jitsu... I think them two might be the biggest threats to Mr. Silva...
Separate names with a comma.