Lets SETTLE This Shit Once And For All...

Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by thedream233, Aug 3, 2006.

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Who is a better overall MC?

  1. Jay-z

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  2. Eminem

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  1. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    We did the same shit 4 Jay and Nas a while back but...

    On this site, everybody seems to be divided between Jay-z and Eminem.

    Bar for Bar, who is the better overall MC?

    Try to stop the back and forth internet threat bull shit.

    All you have to do is

    1. Pick one MC

    2. Write why he is better overall.

    3. Post their ILLEST verse (and people, it SHOULD be a verse the other rapper couldn't fuck with!)

    My Pick: Eminem


    I've always seen Eminem as superior to Jay-z.

    -Ryme schemes more complex.
    -More multis (I know that this aint the only thing that makes you a good lyricist, but SURE is an important thing imo)
    -Eminem is more original while Jay-z seems like a watered down version of Biggie Smalls
    - Jay-z's best songs= Eminems average songs. Take an Eminem song like infinite, and imagine its Jay-z rapping instead, it would be Jay-z's best lyrical song, and Jay-z fans would piss in their clothes from excitement.
    - For the most part eminem stays on beat better than Jay
    - Eminem keeps you interested on ANY track


    Its SO Fuckin hard to Pick Eminem's top verse, but...

    3free6ix5ive-

    Some people say I'm strange, I tell them ain't shit change
    I'm still the same lame asshole with a different name
    Became late to the last show with a different dane
    Brain ate from the last ode that I snifed the cane
    Yo know your spaced the fuck out like George Lucas
    When your pukus, turnin to yellow with orange mukus
    So when I grab a pencil and squeeze it between fingers
    I'm not a rapper, I'm a demon who speaks English
    Freak genuis, too extreme for the weak and squeemish
    Burn you alive till you screamin to be extinquished
    Cause when I drop the science, motherfuckers tell me to stop the violence
    Start a fire and block the hydrants
    I'm just a mean person, you never seen worse than
    So when Slim gets this M-16 burstin
    You gettin spun backwards like every word of obscene cursin
    On the B-side of my first single with the clean version
    Stoppin your short life when you still a teen virgin
    Unless you get a kidney speciman from a spleen surgeon
    In the best hospital possible for emergancy surgery
    To try to stop the blood from your rushin sternly eternally
    I'll take it back before we knew each others name
    Run in a ultrasound and snatch you out your mothers frame
    I'll take it further back than that
    Back to lovers lane, to the night you were started
    Cock block your fathers game
    I'll plead the fifth like my drawers were muzzled
    So suck my dick while I take a shit and do this crossword puzzle
    And when I'm down with ten seconds left, then to hope out
    I'ma throw a head-but so hard, I'll knock us both out
    test
  2. Mind_Control_D

    Mind_Control_D Detroits_Own

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    Jay-Z could never spit that....thats why he's # like 3 or 4 on my top 10 list rather than 1.
    test
  3. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    First of all, this isn't going to settle shit. Next of all, in order to effectively compare 2 people, you need to not only highlight their best shit, but their worst shit.

    Jay-Z is better than Eminem naturally. Eminem has to spend months sometimes to finish a verse that Hov can do in his head in minutes. Now thats not to say anything about song quality. But for raw rap skill, Hov has him covered by far.

    Jay-Z's worst songs are better than Eminems worst songs. Jay-Zs worst album is 5 times better than Eminems worst album. Jay-Zs best songs are better than most of Eminems best songs, tho Eminem has songs that are brilliant, and I can say, some of them joints do rival Jay.

    Now I have established Hov has more skill, and makes better music. Hov is more relateable, as Im afraid I cannot relate to rhymes about the insane clown posse. Hov isnt a gimmick, which Eminem is. Like it or not, he is a gimmick, which is why he releases a pop culture diss every album. Jay aint got 2 singles that sound alike. Jay-Z is more versatile. You dont hear Eminem in cars and clubs, you do hear Hov, both are introspective, however I feel Jay still has him covered there. Eminem has NO song, as brilliant as "You Must Love Me", or as blatantly honest.

    This thread is more or less pointless, most people are biased in one way or another. Even being a fan of both like me, I just like Hov better, I cant change that...its just how I FEEL, so naturally when it comes to me, I look at things my way, and you look at them yours.

    My main beef with Eminem, aside from all the stupid songs, is most of his songs have no real life meaning. I mean really, how many songs on SSLP arent just off the wall, say something to be funny shit?

    See the verse you posted, thats all meaningless crap to me. I mean he said ALOT of shit, but at the end of the verse, think about it...what did he really say?? Nothing. Just a bunch of meaningless shit, purposely put together to simulate a dope flow, and make his lyrics sound good. Anyone can rhyme, when there is no topic. Jay-Z is just alot realer to me, Eminem is more entertainment...rhyming just to be entertaining, I can FEEL Hovs music. Eminem does have songs I can feel, but fewer and further between.

    Dead presidents
    [Jay-Z]
    So sick of niggas, I want money like Cosby who wouldn't?
    This' the kinda talk that make me think you probably ain't got no puddin'
    Niggas got them kinda dreams from jail
    You in the streets nigga make your moves, get your mill'
    Niggas'll coast in the SL but can't post bail
    Niggas'll, roast a L but, scared to throw your toast, well
    I'm here to tell niggas it ain't all swell
    there's heaven, then there's hell niggas
    One day your cruisin in your 7 next day your sweatin forgettin your lies
    Alibis ain't matchin up, bullshit catchin up
    Hit with the rico, they repo your vehico'
    Everything was all good just a week ago
    'Bout to start bitchin' ain't you? Ready to start snitchin' ain't you?
    I'll forgive your weak ass, hustlin' just ain't you
    Aside from the fast cars; honey's that shake they
    ass at bars you know you wouldn't be involved
    with the underworld dealers, carriers of mac-millers
    East coast bodiers, west coast cap peelers
    Little •••••• niggas turn gorillas
    Stopped in the station; filled up on octane
    and now they not sane and not playin' that goes without sayin'
    Slayin' day in and day out with money playin' and then they play you out
    Tryin' to escape my own mind, lurkin' the enemy
    Representin' infinite with presidencies, you know?
    test
  4. -Alk-

    -Alk- AlkatraZ

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    How many songs does Jay Z have about money, bitches, bling, cars, and....money? probably about as many songs as eminem has about crazy, retarded shit. you get stuck in a groove if youre rapping about the five same things every song, every album, but at least eminem could keep it fresh. Eminem can spit about real shit as much as Jay Z, but does he? Yes and know. for every song Jay Z has about money, eminem has 5 songs about random shit. You can only say so much about money, and after youve said so much, it gets old. Maybe I would've like 99 Problems a little bit more, if I hadn't heard 99 Jay verses about the same shit on every album. What's wrong with just kickin a rhyme? People need to lighten up, why does the GOAT have to be associated with someone down to earth with all seriousness?
    test
  5. -Paper Chase-

    -Paper Chase- alwaysgotberrybluetoblow

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    Jay Z..why ? cuz lyrically he's a monster..and i enjoy his music more..i cant find the lyrics but his verse on "Reservoir Dogs" is one of my favorites
    test
  6. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    Jay-Z is deifnitely superior, although Eminem used to be my favorite rapper and he is fuckin dope, but everything you said comparing them was untrue,

    "-Ryme schemes more complex."

    Are you serious? Jay-Z in his best work uses the most creative and complex rhyme schemes of any rapper, and hes so good at at switching them up from song to song, instead of use similar ones over and over like some great rappers do. (for example AZ) Im going to enter a part of a Jay-Z verse and label the rhymes A and B and show you how complex the rhyme scheme is. I guess that will also be my verse...

    "-Eminem is more original while Jay-z seems like a watered down version of Biggie Smalls"

    Eminem probably is more original with his style, some of that due to the fact that hes white, but that biggie comment is stupid.

    " Jay-z's best songs= Eminems average songs. Take an Eminem song like infinite, and imagine its Jay-z rapping instead, it would be Jay-z's best lyrical song, and Jay-z fans would piss in their clothes from excitement."

    WHAT!? That's retarded, Jay-Z best songs are a lot better than better then Eminem's best, although a higher percentage of Jay-Z's songs are bad compared to Eminem's (before Encore he had never really made a bad song, or at least not a wack song lyrically). Imagine Eminem rapping Dead Presidents II, or a lot of others.

    And I might agree with you that overall Eminem is more on beat then Jay, but Jay the best flows and is the best at varying his flow and delivery from song to song. Eminem is probably the 2nd best at that in my opinon.


    "People Talkin"

    [Verse]
    I speak(A) through(B) music, I reach(A) you dudes(B)
    We can get deeper(A) in the dirt than cleat(A) shoes(B)
    I refuse(B) to lose(B)
    I peep(A) you creeps(A) three(A) months in advance
    I see(A) right through(B) ya Judas!(B)
    The man that I am and damn you dont know
    The harder you go at me the harder I flow
    Lets do this
    I'm just a mirror reflectin your image
    The minute you switch up your face I pick up the pace
    There's nothin to it
    Pull hammers from my waist
    We can clap at this amateur pace
    If that's what's crackin'
    Or we can play this on All Madden
    Can you even fathom not havin a fear in the world
    I'm cool in my afterlife
    If I'm readin these chapters right
    Please what have you, I breeze through Matthews
    Bleed if I have you, you cowards die a thousand deaths
    Fake fucks face-down on your housing steps
    Are yall even gettin this message?
    I aint bein aggressive
    But if you testin my life then, shit I gotta answer
    Gotta cut off the cancer, young'n, pull your pants up
    You gettin too big for ya britches
    You fuckin wit a dude that did it wit' digits
    Breathing's a privilege
    Dont you know... when youre defeated?
    Wont you throw? Throw in the towel
    I'm better with vowels
    I'm a man of principle; damn-near invincible
    In my own mind, now that my soul's aligned
    I didnt know before now my role's defined:
    Take hold and control what's mine
    COME AND GET MEEEEEEE!!!
    Come and take my life, you comin wit me
    Come and try to take me for granted
    I'll take you off this planet
    Dammit, man this is the gift from God
    This aint have to stand
    'Til your arms are too short to box
    Plus we knuckle up unorthodox
    You can't take me off my grind GET OFF MY COCK
    Whatchu thought? It's da ROC!

    [Sample]repeated 3x
    I hear the...

    (Jay-Z)
    Back in the mix of the scuffle
    Since '86 I was sick wit the hustle(Wooh!)
    Git a couple of chicks to touch you(Wooh!)
    Feather-weight fucker dont, ever hate on the brothers...

    Fuckin so much better then the Em verse you posted...
    test
  7. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    Start naming all his songs about that shit, and youll find most of them are singles. He really dont have as many as people make him out to have. Especially considering how many total songs he has.
    test
  8. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    "Start naming all his songs about that shit, and youll find most of them are singles. He really dont have as many as people make him out to have. Especially considering how many total songs he has."

    So true...
    test
  9. Wigger Walter

    Wigger Walter New Member

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    test
  10. -Alk-

    -Alk- AlkatraZ

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    Regardless of how many songs he has, MC's started just kickin rhymes....so that would put subject matter to the side, which one of the two is better when they kick rhymes based off of the skills they project? I'd have to say Eminem....there's been Jay Z tracks ive listened to, and just didnt feel his flow at all, because it wasnt on point like ive heard elsewheres.....my vote: you guessed it, eminem.
    test
  11. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    Complete List Of Jay-Z songs about money, cars or jewelry

    I aint gonna count bitches, everyone raps about bitches, only some people like Kweli, Dont call them bitches, and some people just call them Kim.

    Reasonable Doubt

    No songs is really about money, at least not in a corny bragging sense.

    Anyway, Dead Presidents & Cashmere Thoughts are the only 2.

    & They are both done to the utmost of excellence.

    2/15 Songs

    In My Lifetime

    Only song about money is Imaginary player. Again, thats kind of a reverse song anyway. But it still makes the list. Again, very dope song.

    1/14

    Volume 2 Hard Knock Life

    Most commercial album obviously.

    Money Cash Hoes
    Money Aint A Thang

    Paper Chase aint really fit into the cliche songs about money, even reguarding the title.

    2/14

    Volume 3, Life & Times Of S.Carter

    Watch Me
    & the Obvious Big Pimpin

    Girls best Friend if you wanna count that too.

    3/18

    The Dynasty

    Parking Lot Pimping is the only song about Money.

    1/16

    Blueprint

    You might be able to make a case for You Dont Know.
    Really, none of these songs are centered around materialism.

    0/15

    Blueprint 2

    Poppin Tags
    Nigga Please
    Show You How

    3/26

    Best Of Both Worlds

    Get This Money

    1/13

    Black Album

    Change Clothes

    1/14

    Unfinished Business

    Big Chips
    Mo Money

    2/11

    Granted he mentions things in alot of songs, these are the only songs soley about money, ice or cars.

    Thats approximately 15 out of 140 songs. Which equals 3 songs about money out of every 46 songs. Or 1/every 18. Not really as much as Eminem has Zany meaningless songs.
    test
  12. Wigger Walter

    Wigger Walter New Member

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    Oz is a Jay-Z stan. But Oz is smart so I don't care.
    test
  13. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    Eh, I used to be, these days, I couldnt care less about him really. I just always see people saying all he talks about is that shit, so I figured Id figure out a pretty on point list and post it up. If I posted the same list for Eminem, and his Zany meaningless songs, instead of 3/46 it would prolly be closer to 30/46. If not more, 80 percent of Eminems content is completely meaningless, and made for pure entertainment value only.
    test
  14. p4ct

    p4ct New Member

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    I agree with a lot of the stuff you said. First of all this thread is useless because its like comparing an orange to an apple. Em and Jay are two very different artists with two very different backgrounds and it's just gonna come down to personal opinion because they don't have enough to compare.
    test
  15. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    HAHAHA!!!! Whoa, whoa. are you serious? Eminem rhymes WHOLE SENTENCES!!!

    Jay-z was rhyming words in that verse! That shows how eminem's lyrics are more complicated.

    C'mon its not hard to see that in the verse I posted, the entire lines rhymed, while with jay-z's it was USUALLY the last word of each sentence.


    Lol@ Em's originality being due to the fact that he's white. Since when does Paul Wall do anything original?

    If I heard Eminem rapping the Dead Presidents 2 lyrics, It would sound average.

    picture Jay-z rhyming

    " Imitator, Intimidator, Stimulator, Simulator of data, Eliminator
    There's never been a greater since the burial of Jesus
    Fuck around and catch all the venereal diseases
    My thesis will smash a stereo to pieces
    My a cappella releases classic masterpieces through telekinesis
    That eases you mentally, gently, sentimentally, instrumentally
    With entity, dementedly meant to be Infinite"

    I would instantly become a bigger Jay-z fan. But Jay IS NOT this complex! Find me some Jay-z shit like this above^^^^


    And to OZ, You've only explained why Jay-z is your FAVORITE MC, not why he's the best.
    test
  16. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    Actually I have given much insight into why he is the best. Most of what I said was fact driven, not opinion driven.

    But at the end of the day, Jay-Z makes real music, Eminem is purely entertainment. Look at these verses your posting up, absolute meaningless garbage! Now I aint saying I can relate to everything Jay says, but someone can relate to it...someone out there, its at least real life situations.

    Aint nothing real life about a dude dressed as a mummy slitting his wrists??

    You wont find a Hov verse like that Em verse, because for the most part, when Jay talks, he needs to put words together in a way that makes sense. Its logical, Eminem says any old off the wall shit, so that expands what he can do with it really....because there is no topic, its just a random rambling. You take away nothing at the end of a verse like that.

    Jay dont need to do gimmicky bullshit like that & he still puts his words together as good as Em, and better than most. I agree Eminem is a brilliant lyricist when it comes to fantasy raps, but Hov is realer with it.

    I mean really, Papoose has put toghether better rhymes in Alphabetical Slaughter than that shit.
    test
  17. SpAnKy

    SpAnKy 플레이보이

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    Until Jay-Z puts out a FACK or ASS LIKE THAT, he'll be the better emcee.
    test
  18. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    so let me get this straight, you're saying that the more realistic the rapper's lyrics are the better he is at rapping? I was discussing shit like rhyme scheme and you're talking abput how much you can relate to Jay. Thats biased. So by your logic, a movie is only good if its based on a true story. And television show are only good if the people are "real."

    How "real" a rapper is has NOTHING to do with how "good" a rapper is. I guess since young jeezy really did sell coke and thats what he raps about, he's a better rapper than eminem. And if kevin Federline made a rap album all about living off of Brittney's wealth, he should be considered one of the GOAT's, not because of how GOOD the album was, but because he "Kept it real."

    fuck it, if its that easy, maybe I'll become a rapper and rap about going to college to be a graphic designer and throw in a couple songs about loggin on to rapmusic.com. Fuck having good rhymes and good flow, I'll just keep it as real as possible, that way I'll KNOW its a flawless CD.
    test
  19. -Alk-

    -Alk- AlkatraZ

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    ....He does make a point.
    test
  20. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    The nerve of that bastard Eminem for trying to make sure his fans aren't falling asleep from listening to endless lyrics about selling cocain.

    How DARE HE!!!

    He should just do what jay-z does and ramble on and on about how he's the shit and how he almost got shot point black range by 3 bullets.

    After all, its not like music is entertainment or anything. Music is you telling everything you've done in your life and it just happens to rhyme!

    and whats up with this whole "trying to make the fans laugh" thing? rap is supposed to be SERIOUS!!!! Any rapper can rhyme good AND be a comedian, but it takes true skill to talk about selling drugs and pimping women.

    FUCK EMINEM and his extra effort to make his music interesting!!!
    test
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