Kobe Better than Jordan? lets discuss...

lol i dunno about all that but one things for sure, his court vision was as good as any other big man's in the game right now.

He played like the post version of Steve Nash.

- the 4 teams he faced for the streak had a combined winnning rate of 34.8%

my point exactly.

Agreed.

Actually Kobe is under 22 this year, which is less than Jordan in around 10 of his seasons with the Bulls. Jordan took 27 shots per game one year. Kobe last year took 27 as well, which is the most he has ever taken. They're both volume scorers and volume shooters.

You just said he doesn't have any good players. Collectively, a team is only as good as it's players, even when it's the most cohesive it can be.

Until he starts winning, then he will be a great leader. When Jordan was losing, he was considered a poor leader. Phil and Pippen come along and all that changes magically. When Garnett couldn't get his team out of the 1st round, he was a poor leader. When he took his team to the WCF, he was then considered a great leader. Now he is back to being a poor leader. Funny how that works. I've noticed that how good of a leader you are depends a whole lot on whether you have good teammates. I don't think that's how real leadership works unfortunetly.

The 80's Bulls were dependant on Jordan just as much. That's why he took a bunch of shots, scored a bunch of points and never won a damn thing until Pippen and Phil came along.

I really never thought I'd see the day where people would have this kind of nostalgia about the 90's, but I guess I should have known. 80's fans degraded 90's ball so it's only right for nostalgia to kick in for the 90's.

80's basketball is no better than 90's basketball, and 90's basketball is no better than the current brand of basketball. They're just different. There are give and takes, strengths and weaknesses. Any advantage someone gives to any particular era over another era is a product of nostalgia and chances are you're talking out of your ass and shitting out of your face.

It's funny how defensive people get about Jordan's legacy. I don't think any player in today's game is as good as Jordan was, but their are definitely three players who are very comparable. Kobe, Wade and LeBron. Kobe has scoring capabilities that only Jordan and Wilt throughout history have had. We are witnessing one of the three greatest scorers in NBA history right now in the NBA, right now. It's just a damn shame that it'll take 10 years for nostalgia to kick in and for people to appreciate it. Wade has led a team to a title way before Jordan ever did in terms of age, and statistically in the past two seasons has been right on par with some of Jordan's prime seasons. LeBron has the ability to be a better all-around player (already a better passer and rebounder) than Jordan was while scoring near the same amount. The defensive capabilities are there and the kid is like 22.

Appreciate these guys while you have them. It shouldn't take 10 years for you to put in perspective what these guys are doing right now, because chances are, in a decade or two you'll be talking these guys up when some new youngster is being compared to them.

nice breakdown, actually great breakdown, my man knows his ball.

few reasons Jordan is a much better player than Kobe ever will be.

-great leader
-much more athletism
-better drivin skills
-better transitional handles (not one on one handles, transitional)
-better dunker
-got his team involved in every play, whether he scored or not
-won titles without a force like shaq, granted he had pipp and others, but com on, shaq is shaq.
-better defender
-and honestly, talk all the shit u want, BUT, played agaisnt a better nba, not a bunch of ball hoggin fucks, better players, the players that dominated the olympics, plays like isiah, stockton, hakeem, clyde, magic, etc...a much more cohesive fluent team type of nba.

ur on crack. why have we lost the olympics?????


our team ball is pathetic. nba skill has gone to shit. its one on one ball now. not a team game... thats why the europeans dominate.

Team USA isn't genetically better than every other country, so it's no surprise that when other countries, like Argentina, Spain and Greece, adopted basketball as a primary sport in their country, that a decade later they put really really good teams on the court.

Infact, the vast improvement of other countries can be attributed to Jordan, Magic and Bird. The NBA blew up worldwide in the late 80's and early 90's and you'd be a fool to think that other countries wouldn't improve after that kind of movement.

chuck person, clifford robinson, ac green, harvey grant, tom gugliotta, etc etc etc

the list goes on...

these dudes are fucking morons...

end this discussion

I didn't see this last night for whatever reason, but I would say the main difference is defense, athleticism and Jordan had huge hands. As petty as that sounds, it helps a ton when you're finishing around the hoop. Jordan's athleticism and explosiveness was also much better than Kobe's. He has the best first step and hangtime in history.

http://www.nba.com/fantasy/features/ltf_070330.html

True, except for the comment about Wade being better than Kobe.

That was idiotic.

I'm from Chicago, born here to. My loyalties lie with the Bulls, but I'm not some hater like you guys. Is Kobe better than MJ right now? No. But by the end of his career, he'll definately be better than him. Jordan played, and retired. He was flesh and bone like every other player before and after him, so I wish people would stop making it like it isn't feasible that somebody could surpass him. It's going to happen and for my money, it'll be Bryant.

Jordan had Pippen, who was probably top 5 in the NBA also at the time. Pippen almost took the Bulls to the finals without Jordan so he wasn't no slouch. He was possibly the best all around player ever. I hate that shit and I'm a Chicago fan. I was just discussing with my boy how Pippen is so underrated, and you'd think Jordan was Paul Bunyan. Jordan is the GOAT, but I think people really overplay how much distance he put between him and the pack. The only real thing that limits Kobe right now is the media. Not his skills.

People say that Jordan was some great leader. [pus] Conveniently when people argue for Jordan the love to exagerate(sp?) his unmeasurable qualities. The same ones that they coincidentally take away from Kobe. Right now Kobe is like 28-29 and Jordan was winning his first championship at that age. Not only that, but That's about the same time that Jordan began racking up accolades. Right now, Kobe's supoorting cast is somewhat similar to that of Jordan's early years. Shaq is one of the greatest ever, but so was Pippen. Shaq made it easier for Kobe than Pippen made it for Jordan, but we're forgetting that Kobe was a freaking boy amongst men at the time.

Another annoying thing is Jordan had great supporting casts to win championships. Rodman was the best rebounder ever. Steve Kerr was the best long distance shooter ever. John Paxson is probably in the top five all time long distance. Toni Kukoc was a perennial 6th man contender/winner. Pippen was one of the greatest ever to play. Horace Grant was a 15/10 guy.

So let's stop with all of the tall tales.

I read this whole thread from page 1 to page 8... and this is probably the most sensible post.

There were good points made for both sides of this quadrangle argument... "Jordan vs. Kobe"... "90's vs 00's"... but I think I might be guilty of what Jaywalk referred to... nostalgia.

I still think defense was better in the '90s than in any other time in the NBA, even if you consider the hacking, which is still a defensive move... when all else fails, you hack... the offense was the best during the '80s... the current time has a mixture of both, but the greatest flaw of the current time is the lack of TEAMS.... which all of the other eras had... today, you have the Suns, Mavs, Pistons, and the Spurs, sometimes... that's it for TEAM play... since Hot Shyt likes invoking the analysts, even they will tell you that today's teams suck... so on that note, overall, the '90s is probably better than the 00's.

As for Jordan and Kobe... everything has already been said... except that Kobe modeled his game and style after Jordan almost to the T... Jordan is Kobe's father... I mean, Jordan modeled his game after Dr. J, but only to a certain extent with the leaping ability and dunks... then Jordan created his own style... he made poetry out there on the court... Kobe has yet to create his own style, which has to account towards greatness within a career legacy.


1

No more thoughts on this?

exaaaactly... the state of basketball in general is fucked....

Put it this way. If Kobe did exactly what Jordan did with how he plays now. His statistic would be lower than they are now. Kobe would've had more blocked shots, more missed shots, and etc. That's how incredible Jordan was. That motha fucka did the impossible. If Jordan was off his feet in the air and you challenging him no matter your size, you were fixing to get embarassed. That dude would readjust to where you can't block his shot while he is in air time. Yall need to watch him in action, he has tons of highlights in youtube.

nobody will be like jordan, dude was da shit, period

kobe is jus new and improved, he do things jordan hasnt done like 50 points like 5 str8 games, 81 point game, etc, but jordan was jus the man, there wouldnt be a kobe witout a jordan, but i mean both are legendary, thank GOD for the NBA

Kobe was able to roam free bc of shaq.
No shaq didn't bring the ball up, but he was the number 1 threat to anyone's D.

What does kobe have to do? I Grew up in chi town and we defended these silly statements all the time.

hmm....

Lead your team to a championship while you're the man (not crying to be the man)...
Lets count the number of MVPs (no all star mvp awards count, only reg. season and finals)
Lets count the all league definsive team honors

Lets count all of those game winners and the number of organizations he destroyed (The Cavs are just starting to come back to respectability after he killed them for years, the hawks may never come back, and we all know about the knicks)....that's what made mike the GOAT (Plus the competition in his day was way superior to the garbage that hit the floor now)

"And if I ain't better than Mike, I'm the closest one"