It's pretty obvious that Aetheists have killed far more ....

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by lyricalpriest, Dec 31, 2011.

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  1. UnbrokeN

    UnbrokeN Well-Known Member

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    its spelled Mein kampf


    mein kauf would mean '' My aquisition''

    and nice post Galatea.

    especially the Liberalism pushing Religion aside part, nice pointing out there. Never really thought about it like that..
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  2. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    Ty...

    I might get a bit off-topic with this reply with my allotted incoherence, but was kind of basing liberalism and religion in conjunction, since liberalism set religion in a far away corner (so to speak) ~ it goes from the center of attention to being only a back up actor in the private sphere of life. The voice of religion in this case decreases, and clergy sees it as morality declining, passion and egoism start to dominate. So called "morality" is decreasing in the scientific, economic and political spheres. In the eyes of the Church, science has been misused and abused due to economic, political and military interests.

    Looking from the economic standpoint, where morality is separated from the economy itself, where it's became permissible by all means to get a competitor out of the game and deviate away from the market. It's allowed that wealth and capital to come in any way, even if it's through sweat and blood of workers, because the economics and material wealth have became one, morality is quite another.

    If we take into consideration that we're beings of matter, the evolution of dual nature, it always leads to struggle between "good and evil", devotion to piety or passions. In a society where so called "evil" prevails, and is expanding without obstacles and resistance, the passion is going to dominate devotion to piety. It's the little road apple that could, and can. Only then comes a change in scaling of value.
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  3. UnbrokeN

    UnbrokeN Well-Known Member

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    I dont have a problem with sliding a bit off topic, its the natural course of a fruitful discussion.

    intresting...seeing religion (or spirituality and morale in general, as they could be perceived as basically nothing more than an accumulation of specific morales about conduct, behaviour and way of life) as a sort of shadow guardian or mere background player in this modern matrix system of ( sometimes more or less regulated) socio-economic liberalism. I believe a strict seperation between those two forces (morality and liberalism) can not be fully made in this day and age, because after all we dont live in a lawless society, meaning an effort has definately been made that it might be possible to regulate this cruel mess we ve gotten ourselves into in the last centuries. obviously an effort alone is not enough, due to the fact that (mostly rather abstract) laws in themselves are rather limited in terms of grasping the diversity of economic issues that we are facing today. hence there seems to be no legal way to control capitalism (economic liberalism in its purest form). the two appear to be more or less imcompatible with one another.

    morality is primarily an internal factor, yet only ever recognized if materialized in the form of considerate and beenvolent actions. and from an economic point of view, it is an almost completely superflous trait.

    liberalism in its pure form is basically a neo darwinist component that gives legitimation to the dog eat dog society as we know it, which of course, is only regulated by the general contract that every citizen and corporation has to follow, the common laws.
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  4. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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  5. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    ...then a route in off-topic it is..:funny:

    We haven't built a world of moral values; the contents of capitalist economy are unknown to us, because we're starting from collectivist society, but we're in the process of transformation into this ultracorporation. This is done in order for the rulling elites of society to maintain its position through legitimation and legalization.

    Does economy as (i)moral entrepreneurship play a morally and ethically good or bad role? Entrepreneurship is the capitalism of the continental parts ~ this is separated from coastal capitalism ~ and because of Christianity's negative impact.

    Even in the early 90-ies a sphere of successful businessmen - even the occasional manipulation of some ~ weren't evaluated very mildly, but today we are dealing with »tycoons«, through which all economy is trying to be shown as negative. It's true that business is essentially a game of, as you said, the dog eat dog society, ~ in accordance with the simple rules of the business ~ take opponent's the money and property. Even the German word for a company (Unternehmen) basically means "taken from below", or to take from someone else. Capitalism is based on this logic and is nothing more than a game of monopoly.

    I'll have to say, that Karl Marx attempted at moralizing unfair economy back then, but he failed to change a person, because he collided with human nature, which hasn't changed because of simply applying moral norms ~ he wanted to force the workforce and economy with morality and ethics. His purpose and intentions were otherwise good, but due to inadequate means with wich he went about it, he failed at reaching his goal.

    The reasons why there's no clear answer to the question of whether economy partakes in a fundamentally good or bad role, probably lies in the fact that despite the efforts of mankind there is no clear answer as to what morality and ethics, ethical really are.

    Ethics is a philosophical discipline, which explores morality, whereby we must distinguish between the moral and ethical values. Imo, this is a job best suited for lawyers, since they can make a distinction between the concept of ideal law (de lege ferenda) ~ what the law ought to be (as opposed to what the law is) and the concept of valid law, the law as it exists (de lege lata). De lege lata, therefore is the law is what the social environment accepts, a moral rule. Moral rules are those, which are formed by habits, customs and traditions in a social environment, and which are considered good for the social environment. Ethical norms on the other hand, should be imposed and are therefore higher than moral norms.

    Furthermore, morals vary, but ethics usually shouldn't. It's why we generally can't talk about codes of morality, because it would only be a generalized opinion's inventory of what people consider to be good, but it comes to codes of ethics, because we want to create standards that should apply to everyone, but are rare in practice. Ideology no longer applies as a global principle, as well as religion is losing as a global model of thinking and evaluation, and tries to create a global ethos and global ethics ~ it seeks to answer the question, what is absolutely good in all areas of life.

    Economy is in terms of morality and ethics is in terms of neutral, but there are individual human behaviors in this process that may be ethical, or moral, or may not. I've attended the round table on economic organized crime this last November, it was pointed out that the economy must be able to preserve credibility. If you can't recover once already lost assigned credibility, then each and every lawyer will have a lot of work on their hands.

    How do we talk about morality when in surveys between 50 and 60 percent of managers says that corruption is an inevitable part of the domestic and global economic system?

    The need to address business morals and business ethics should reflect the fact that the economy exclusively for economic laws can't be the .invisible hand of the market and be effective at the same time. Ethics is one of the tools for economic success.

    Economy created by the consideration of ethical standards for its own communication makes a happier man. And if a man is happier, he's also more efficient at work.
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  6. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    TLDR :bwahaha:
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  7. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    ...why am I not surprised...:funny:
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  8. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    psyche i read it.. but could you make it more simple to understand what message your tyring to convey b/c it's a bit above my IQ (the dialogue)
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  9. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    Morals & ethics have little room to work with when business and general economy is concerned, although the combo could provide a person with being a better and happier employee.

    Condensed enough?
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  10. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    yup... but i think that morals and ethics should be considered when business and economy is in question.. b/c if not then people would rape pillage and extort to endless extents..
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  11. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    Oh LP, you're getting far to predictable, it's getting rather :scared: ...

    Let me ask you this ~ what kind of ethics can the Church offer the economy? Will they offer ethics of the ten commandments, or something else? If you look at how the Church came to it's wealth, you'll be able to see, just what exactly they can offer the economy, with these ethical principles being a backdrop of nothingness.

    The Church came to wealth, in many cases ~ as is clear from historical records ~ in an illegal and unfair way. From various sources it's known that the Church has dealt with human trafficking and had slaves, even serfs had to pay the Church in what is commonly known as one-tenth, not to mention that the Church was selling titles, functions, blessed letters, introduced the trade of pardons. Monks and other religious people forged documents in order to illegally get their grimey paws on land tenure. There were even popes and (arch)bishops who got rich from running prostitution, even had their own brothels. One of the most disgraceful ways of collecting wealth was murdering as well as robbing people of other religions and faiths. The main factor in the dissemination of land by the Church from ancient times on, particularly in the Middle Ages, was the heritage/inheritance.

    From that, even to this day, the Church enjoys the wealth with interest. Let's call it getting blood interest, since the cardinal principal used for obtaining weath was in many cases with blood being shed. And thanks to that blood spilt, Church still lives.

    After the famous conception of historical materialism, the structure of each company consists of levels or instances, infrastructure or economic base, as the unity of the productive forces and production relations and superstructure or superstructure of which itself has two levels: political and ideological. Based on this spatial metaphor, bases and superstructures of all to a relationship interaction. The content of a golden rule is »don't do onto others, what you don't want done to you.« Anyone who knows the essence of the church, would know that as in church, as well as in business it's hard not to run it with a killer instinct.
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