Is there any other religions that say youll go to hell for not following it?

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Sir Bustalot, Dec 17, 2011.

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  1. patrown

    patrown student for life

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    sir bust, good advice. point taken.

    thebigpayback - very true.
    "To ask is a temporary shame, not to ask a life-long shame."
    or, I'm paraphrasing this one.. 'To ask when one knows is politeness, to ask when one does not know is the rule.'

    Here's one: why are people so concerned about another persons concept of God?
    Do religions say to worry about it? To be truly abhorred they do not believe in the same book teaching a divine way of living.. that's confusing to me.
    Different religions are suited to the way the people needed to live at that time for there to be peace. a guidebook to lead a life not tormented by evil must be suited to the person reading the book... I just hope I don't choose the wrong one and wind up in a fiery dungeon full of sadomasochists.
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  2. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.
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  3. RETSoldja

    RETSoldja Telling it like it is.

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    Christianity, Judaism and Islam, I believe you mean.

    I realize that we have a Muslim present, (after a sort), so he and I are bound to have differences when I get to that aspect of your question. Fair warning.


    Judaism originated with Abram, a man originally from Ur, which was located near the northwestern point of the Persian Gulf. After a covenant with God was instituted, his name was changed to Abraham. (Abram meaning "exalted father," and Abraham meaning "father of a nation.") His descendants found their way into Egypt during a period of drought, and over the period of about 400 years became the slaves of the Egyptians. After being freed and moving into the Sinai Desert, they became known to everyone else as the Israelites- Later becoming known as the Jews.

    Christianity is the continuation of Judaism, though that is an often resisted fact in many circles. I'll explain what I mean.
    Yeshua, the Christ, was born a Jew and lived as a Jew. He was born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, died upon a cross, and rose from the dead after three days- This according to the New Testament. (Some attempt to say that Yeshua did not even exist, but his existence is substantiated by more than one historian of the time.) Those who followed Him were originally called "followers of the Way," and later on "Christians." This term was originally meant to be degrading, but because the original word from which "Christian" is translated from means "little Christs," the followers of Christ took it as a proper name for their faith.

    Islam came about through a man named Abu al-Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Muttalib Ibn Hashim - Now known to the world simply as Muhammad. There are two stories to this religion, however; the one accepted by Islam, and the one history tells. Out of respect to Nu, I'll mention the Islam proper first.
    According to Islamic tradition, Muhammad was given the revelation of Allah via an angel. He was to be the "final prophet," though Yeshua is respected within Islam as the "perfect" prophet. Muhammad was able to rally the nomadic tribes around him and his revelation, and the rest is truly history.
    According to the historical account of Islam's beginnings, however, Muhammad took aspects of Judaism, Christianity and the pagan beliefs of the nomadic tribes to create what we now know as Islam. Proponents of this viewpoint often refer to the black stone at Mecca as one form of proof of this; the stone had been worshiped by the tribes long before Muhammad was born.


    All of this background to say that your understanding is correct, up to a point.

    Jews are the direct descents of Abraham. Christians believe that through the death of Christ, they are grafted or adopted into the Covenant of Abraham which was for he and his descendants. Obviously, there is some disagreement on this point between Jews and Christians.
    However, most of the Arabic peoples are descended also of Abraham. Whereas the Jews were descended through Isaac, Abraham's son through his wife Sarah, the Arabian tribes were descended through Ishmael, Abraham's son through Sarah's servant, Hagar.


    Okay... I think I may have written a novel with this post, so I'll end it now, and respond if any direct a question or comment to me.
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  4. patrown

    patrown student for life

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    Thankyou, but I'm still not sure who .. received the "covenant" they call it.. Gods favor. All I know is one of the sons of Abraham was favored over the other, and beef was then for dinner.

    I was just kind of poking around to try and get some feedback on why it is inconceivable the same God has many names.
    Many seem convinced there faith is the only one that could possibly be true.
    It's puzzling to me. Thank you for the history tho. I appreciate the response.
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  5. patrown

    patrown student for life

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    I'm pretty sure not every animal that appeared on this earth stayed the same.
    We bred pitbulls to be stepped on by large animals.
    It's not too far fetched to think something may have adapted to its environment on its own.
    I don't think we're evolved monkeys. Something happened with homo sapiens.
    That's why I know there has to be a higher power. We didn't occur naturally.
    There's a lot of fossils by my house in the sandstone. It's interesting to see how big those snails used to be when there was water in the canyon I live in.
    So I think some things evolved after arrival. We showed up this way. Maybe a little shorter on average.
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  6. Alias3000

    Alias3000 Well-Known Member

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    We're already in Hell, so "going" to Hell is an oxymornon.

    I'm working on trying to get outta this motherfucker so I can "get to" Heaven..
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  7. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    after a sort?

    you're pretty much correct.

    except for the pagan beliefs having been adopted by the prophet.

    no pagan beliefs were ever adopted, the black stone was to keep the high chiefs from beefing, which is why all four had a part to play in placing the blackstone on the ka'bah.

    as for adopting from christianity/judaism, it is derived from the same river of faith.

    just a different stream so to speak, and an updated version like vista.

    hence, muhammad carrying the final seal of prophethood.

    btw, you said there are two stories - what's the one that history tells? lulz.

    :numaan:
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  8. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    You're not in Hell, so why even say that you are? If you were really trying to get to Heaven, you can't be in Hell. When you see Hell, then you will see Heaven also.
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  9. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    that'd be the worst.

    the grass would be alot greener on the other side.

    :numaan:
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  10. JASON ANTHONY

    JASON ANTHONY White Devil

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  11. RETSoldja

    RETSoldja Telling it like it is.

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    Right- Isaac was favored over Ishmael because the former was the promised son, whereas the latter was the result of Abraham and his wife trying to "help" God out, something mankind tends to do still. Even though Isaac was favored, and it was through Isaac's line that Yeshua came, God still blessed Ishmael because of His promise to Abraham. He had told Abraham that his seed would become a great nation, and indeed they have.

    The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob does indeed have many names. However, the reason many Christians reject the name of "Allah" as being one for the same God is because it was "revealed" to one outside of Scripture. Personally, I think it is a very weak explanation, as many Arabian Christians I know will still refer to God as Allah, because of what Allah means. I reject its use based on its current, modern day understanding.


    Many faiths claim theirs to be the only way, yet so do many cults and so forth. The Heaven's Gate cult, for instance, claimed that once they committed suicide, they would hitch a ride on the comet and the world would be destroyed. I think we can safely say they were wrong on that count.

    I'm not going to get into the Christianity vs Islam debate, as they more often than not get out of hand quickly. Suffice to say, that Christians see one thing, and Muslims another. The Q'ran says many things which contradict the Bible, and the Bible likewise contradicts the Q'ran. If there is but one God, this contradiction cannot exist except in the instance that one is wrong.

    I hope that was a fitting and satisfactory summary of the argument, as I'm hoping to avoid it entirely while still answering your question!
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  12. RETSoldja

    RETSoldja Telling it like it is.

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    No disrespect meant by this.

    When I say after a sort, I mean that you certainly do not present yourself as a strict follower of the Prophet. Some of your assertions here, as well as your expression and post content, would fall under that which is not sinful, yet discouraged.

    This is based on my studies with our local Imam regarding strict adherence; thus the reason I do not say you are not a true Muslim, because Islam seems to differ slightly based upon locale. (For example, the taking of a second wife is permitted in some places but not in others.)



    The historical account of Islam and its formation does not follow with the accepted account of Islam itself- Thus, they are two stories about the beginnings of the belief.


    By the way- In your own opinion, how does your statement of Islam being from "the same river of faith" work with Abu Huraira 4:52:176? (This is one of the sections which reads - Allah's Apostle said, "You will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will betray them saying, 'O 'Abdullah! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' ")

    This is a simple question, though, so please take no offense, as I am honestly seeking only your opinion.
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  13. eashaya

    eashaya seer

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    I have seen the recurrence of a misconception from several different posters and would like to quickly address this. Where some have stated that Jesus himself never claimed to be God incarnate, you are incorrect.

    John 10:30-33

    I and my Father are one.

    Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

    Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

    The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


    John 14:9-11

    Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


    John 10:37-38

    If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

    But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


    John 8:56-60

    Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

    Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


    John 12:43-47

    For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

    Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

    And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

    I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


    John 13:12-17

    So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

    Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

    If I then, your Lord and Master
    , have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

    For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

    If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
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  14. patrown

    patrown student for life

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    ^ good to see some direct quotes to support the less popular side of that argument.
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  15. patrown

    patrown student for life

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    That's from the Quran?
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  16. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    already know.
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  17. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Christianity reagurds it as issac who was abraham and sarahs son. Muslims believe ishmaell however that was abrahams son with his bondservant.
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  18. patrown

    patrown student for life

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    thanks for the info ret. very neutral observations.
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  19. patrown

    patrown student for life

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    Was that Christian belief taken from Judaism?
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  20. eashaya

    eashaya seer

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    It's been quite some time since I've read the Qur'an, so I may well be wrong, but I believe it is hadith and not actual text from the Qur'an.

    *Keep in mind that although not actual text from the Qu'ran itself, the hadith is composed of Muhammad's own statements or works.
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