Is Music a cultural expression? Can it be manipulated? If so to what end?

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Sodium, Aug 10, 2007.

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  1. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    is this possibly available on youtube
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  2. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    Did I say I what to be ghet? NO!

    I said I want to make Bank doing what he does.
    Being Good at it just means the willingness to practice at it.
    If I fail. I doesn't matter, failure only makes one stronger.

    How come I am Offensive? How come you are not Offensive? What is offensive besides you're inner judge not agreeing with my opinions? I believe in if you do what you like the money will follow.

    Number one.) You don't know me. You've never met me. You couldn't even pick me out in a line up.

    Number two.) I don't let a silly thing like personal opinions or beliefs come in the way of making that bank. In the studio I just focus on producing the tracks. I don't even cheat the artist by prolonging the recording time.

    Like I said soultan, You know nothing about me, You know what I want you to know, and that is it. Why do you work with Ghet that is a fair question? Only thing I can think of is he doesn't let stupid shit get in the way of him making bank. That or noone else wants to work with you.





    I don't want to be like them. I just want to do me.

    But it doesn't society is a reflection of diverse music. Why are you following a retard who doesn't know the difference between "house nergo" and "my wife"?

    They are pretty dead. You're argument is like saying Ps3 isn't dead it will catch xbox by such and such year. That's a wishful projection probabally never going to see the light of day. Like the Xbox is cheaper than the ps3free Music has the advantage. Therefore, competition such as paying for cheap singles, or paying the full amount the record labels would like us to pay will lose. record labels are going down like the titanic so get on the life boat.

    The record companies can't make bank off free music. Lime-wire is free music. There are tons of programs that give free music. Like I said: They'll sell 100,000 but not 3 million any more.

    I'll explain it, people don't like paying for a crappy CD's with one or two good songs on it. The artist is fucking his sells just as much as Illegal downloading is helping to fuck the shitty artist. Which I have no problem with because they put out shit.

    I'd put the blame where it belongs on the artist and Illegal down loading.
    If anything, the premises that music reflects the culture is a fallacious argument, because if that were true it would be selling in huge quanities by now. Obviously music is by genre in culture since people download different music. Like, great, rock N roll, Jazz, Blues, etc... you know the shit record labels don't market anymore. All record labels do is force, paul wall, ying yang twins, and brintney spears bullshit down our throats, shit we as consumersdon't want to pay for anymore when we can illegally down load it for free.

    Do you work for the record label? If not, who gives a fuck about the dying record label. Just Take you're music to Itunes, napster, yourself and cut out the record label all together. If that is where you believe it's all heading anyway. It's no different than cutting the middle man out of you're drug deal so you bank more and don't have to worry about the middle man short changing ya. Get you're thinking cap on, not you're regurgitation cap.

    I can't see how if someone has the choice between choosing free albums or paying a little for a single why they wouldn't choose the free album when they can get the single with it? Think about, Alot of people don't like record labels because they repersent corporate fascism.

    I think, a combination of shit artists, free illegal down loading, people against corporate fascism, no other huge genre of music being marketed like rap is, has killed the music industry. There is no genre of diversity being marketed in huge quanities any more.

    The problem with you soultan, you can't think outside the box.
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  3. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    Not feeling that effect on the voice.
    Is that you with a effect on your voice?
    Insturmental is a banger though.

    Sounds like you lowered the tone, added a light echo, and space effect.
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  4. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    You talk too much,

    You'r an ass,

    You don't make good music.

    That will cause you to wear out your welcome before you even start. Why do you can make bank doing what ghet does? GHET doesn't even make bank doing what ghet does.
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  5. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    Neither did I [dunno]
    okay, Kanye...[dummy]
    having a disagreeable demeanor and taking pot shots at absolutely everyone you come in contact with makes one offensive. That's what you do. It's not about opinion.
    your point?
    Dude, you don't have artists. What have you EVER done?
    Uh huh. Shit like this? Makes you disagreeable. Not everything has to be an insult. That seems to be your style, tho. That will fuck you up in ANY industry.
    Unfortunately, as to key points, there isn't a difference, outside of the fact that HE actually has a discernable talent.
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  6. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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  7. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    also, the illegal download issue and the "is music a cultural expression" issue are two separate issues. Half of the paragraph you just wrote isn't even clear. There are at least three "huh?" moments in it.
    Here's what's wrong with that. First of all, you're being offensive for no reason. Second of all, if you put your music on itunes, no one will buy it. I don't care if you have the hottest album IN THE WORLD. Know why?

    MARKETING. Songs do not get on the radio, do not get placed on soundtracks, do not get placed in movies, do not get made into videos out of thin air. All of these things MUST HAPPEN for a record to move, and to move just ONE SINGLE can cost hundreds of thousands. You NEED A LABEL to do that. And as of yet, we are still not in an era where we can do away with the distro middle man and still expect sales.

    In other words, you still need the label. What the labels need to re-evaluate is WHY they are needed because as the digital age advances and changes, so does the label's role. Furthermore, laws about payola is changing how songs are broken too. Not to mention Youtube and the size of your label. Case in point: if you're a small indie label, you're an incubator for new artists AS WELL as a label. A&R's approach artists differently now BECAUSE of the changing market. This is what YOU are forgetting.
    I really don't think most people see it that way. ARTISTS might, but your average 15 year old 10th grade consumer could give a fuck. It's about how much disposable income is out there, how scared some people are of illegal downloads, what they are downloading it for (it's hard to illegally download a ringtone, a huge source of revenue in the market place) or how it is marketed. It actually sometimes BEHOOVES the label to leak it for free on sites such as this one to promote it.

    Sounds crazy, but it works. It creates a buzz for free that would have otherwise cost 2 to 3 hundred thousand dollars to create. Instead, they get kids online like you to do their job for them. You can tell who's got buzz and who doesn't just by going to the download center of this site and seeing who's downloading what. Ever wonder why the hide feature is there? It serves a few purposes, one is that it makes it clear at a glance what's moving and what's not. That's an instant indication of who's going to sell well and who won't and can effect how a label budgets for a particular project. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff makes money on the deal directly from labels in the process in some sort of guerilla marketing/research deal.
    aside from the fascism claim, I can agree with that.

    The problem with you soultan, you can't think outside the box.[/QUOTE]No, the problem is that the industry is not keeping up with the technology and the law NEVER will. Litigation moves WAAAAAY too slow. By the time the courts get a hold of a morpheus or a kazaa or a limewire, the damage (whatever that may be) is done, and the money is made. Done deal. So fuck the law on that one, they will never be a determining factor (and I say this as a lawyer who's studies were specifically in this arena in the dead center of the entertainment capital in the world at one of the top schools for that. This was what most of my law school research was in while all this was happening).

    So fuck johnny law as to that.

    What needs to happen is labels need to re-evaluate their roles in the changing economy (which is on a huge upswing right now) and the changing industry/technology. (Money mike made hundreds of hundreds of thousands for ringtones. That means labels need to sign ACTORS now to sell ringtones as "singles" and use a similar point system to create a formula for revenue. No longer does it have to be a musician.)

    So there's a lot to this. I can't summarize all my research in a post. I had hard enough of a time summarizing it into a DISSERTATION. Likely, I won't get you to understand, but you get the idea of what's at work here.
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  8. People make it a habit to bad mouth me because I don't bend over and submit to their failing, limited visions that generally involve them paying me as less money as possible.

    For the genre of music I cover, if people wanna go to an inferior engineer who can smile, tap dance, and put on a pretty show, but sort of turn knobs while having no idea what the hell they are doing, they are more than free to make that choice.

    Of course, had they ever been in a real session with real money on the line, where you have to deal with 12-18 hours straight of recording and mix time per day 30 days in a row, then they would know that I am the person for that job because where pretty smiles and cool looks fail, sheer persistance and random spurts of insanity is precisely what is needed to get the job done.

    Sadly, many of the people I work with will never see that level. Therefore, I am a liability. Somehow. I don't exactly know how. :shrug:

    The biggest thing holding me back is not any personal traits of my own. What kills me is that these comfortable people with nice lives don't understand what a survivor is. They don't comprehend that people like me who have endured violence, suffering, and misery like I have are the people that are MOST capable of instant adaptability in -ANY- situation for the sake of survival. Sol has startup money. I do not. That's the only difference on this particular subject.

    As soon as I get the money I need to setup a good recording facility, I will be back in action.
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  9. That effect is an experimental doohickey I found floating on the interwebs.

    It adjusts your "throat".

    Long story short, they couldn't find a black southern preacher, so I opted to do the script and experiment with this thing. I basically extended my larynx 1.5 inches with this thing lol.

    It sounds freaky, but they liked it because the delivery, with the music, had alot of conviction. Believe me, I hear what you hear, but I sort of like the strangeness and the sort of going from a black voice to a white voice to black voice to white voice thing it's doing.
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  10. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Perhaps you can show me where I said that I believe in "evil"?

    I said, ("A necessary evil", as Carl Jung put it) and I said, They are no longer in that allegorical "Garden of Eden" . . . they have eaten from the tree of knowledge between good and and evil (dualism).

    You do know what dualism means, correct?

    Good is what we like and evil is what we do not like. They are both illusions created by the divided (dualistic) mind. That is the meaning of the "Garden" allegory in the Bible. Adam and Eve lost their innocence when they began dividing the world between good and evil. They allegorically ate from the tree of knowledge between this or that, good or evil, right or wrong . . . and they became impure. They lost their purity. Where in that did you find a disagreement?

    Your entire rant was utterly unnecessary. We are in agreement on this matter (only you cannot see it because you want somebody [or some idea] to struggle against). Neither good nor evil is real. They are manifestations of the human mind's need to differentiate between what they like and what they dislike. In other words, They are creations of the individual identity which in turn have given standards by which one can rise or fall in a "man-made" illusionary pecking order that only exists on the surface of life.
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  11. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    [funny] @ this rant

    You do not, cannot and will not ever understand until you have exhausted your search for meaning on the surface of things. Once you have covered every inch of the surface then you will begin digging beneath it. You will then begin to study the energy which manifests the matter and you will repeat the process, arriving ultimately at the same circular dead end. Then you will realize that there is another layer behind energy. It is what moves energy to manifest matter. There you will find God and then you will understand. If you do not go through this process and the experiencer does not experience the experiencer, then all that will be experienced is the experience itself and the ego will thrive and arrive at nothing.

    You are correct, I cannot prove God to you.
    A horse can only be led to the water, one cannot make him drink.
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  12. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    I can be sure, you cannot be sure.

    Of course not. All knowledge comes through personal experience. If one has not experienced, then one cannot know, they can only believe or disbelieve. You have not experienced God and so you cannot know God. I cannot give you that experience, I can only tell you how to experience. You do not want to experience God and so you won't. One cannot see what one does not wish to see. A sunrise is beautiful, but only to one who watches it rise. If another tries to tell a blind man about the sunrise's beauty, he will snicker and say, "That is nonsense! Prove it is beautiful!" Many have experienced God . . . they cannot explain their experiences, but they have experienced and that is why they are willing to die for their beliefs (which is actually knowledge, but is called belief by those who do not know and believe that they do). Others have not experienced God but pretend that they have because they want to feel a sense of belonging with those who have, so they parrot the words of those who have, fooling nobody but themselves.

    Prove that you have felt love.
    Prove that you have felt hate.
    Prove that blue is blue to somebody who is colorblind.
    How much can you prove if the other refuses to agree with you?

    You can't. If you don't want to experience, you won't. It's that simple. And nobody can make you experience. You cannot know anything without experiencing it for yourself and you flat out don't want to experience it, so how can anybody prove it to you? I could hand you a technique to carry out, I could tell you . . . "Do this for this period of time and you will experience God" but you won't do it. You'll only pretend to do it so that you can come back and say "nothing happened" and so nothing will happen. It's like a mathematician giving a process to solving an equation and the person he gives it to doesn't do the process but wants the mathematician to prove that the process brings the answer. How can he? If a scientist tells you how to achieve a proof and you refuse to do the steps to getting that proof, can he give you the proof? He's given you the process, do the fuckin process and get your proof. Any fool can deny and reject anything. Anybody can close their eyes and refuse to see and nobody can force them to open their eyes . . . it is a choice and you have made your choice. You want to remain in the dark, so stay in the dark. It doesn't effect me one way or the other. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I tell you how it is. If you don't like it, tough. It doesn't change a thing.

    Jewish is a language now. Instead of calling God YHVH, YHWH or YHYH, Jews now refer to God as Hashem. They don't use the name, they use a name which literally means "the name" . . .

    The need to differentiate exists because many Jews have created that need.
    Don't worry about it, all the explanation in the world won't register with you.
    You're as good as dead. Your heart has been hardened and you have lost the ability to feel (I'm not sure you ever actually had it) and you have moved all of your energy into the mind. The mind will lead in circles. You will continue to move in circles and will get nowhere because there is nowhere to get, in the mind.


    That is because you are a fool and consciousness cannot exist for a fool.

    Why do scientists talk about a "sunrise" or a "sunset"? They know that the sun neither rises nor sets. It's just a way of expressing it. You are the type who can never find the true meaning in a poem because you analyze the words. If a poem says something contradictory, you will say . . . "This is nonsense! It makes no sense!" For example, here is a snippet from a poem titled Ars Poetica, by Rita Dove:

    "I once met an Australian novelist
    who told me he never learned to cook
    because it robbed creative energy.
    What he wanted most was
    to me mute; he stacked up pages;
    he entered each day with an ax."

    You can't possibly understand what this means, because you have no ability to feel.

    You can't understand this either:

    "A poem should be equal to:
    Not true.
    For all the history of grief
    An empty doorway and a maple leaf.
    For love
    The leaning grasses and two lights above the sea -
    A poem should not mean
    But be."

    If you prefer "She" or "It" then use those words. It makes no difference because you're fast asleep, drooling on your pillow, trying to convince me that the dream world which we have been living in is true, but it isn't. I've woken up. I know that the matter is worthless and that the energy behind it amounts to nothing. I know that it is all "chasing after the wind."

    You can't convince somebody who knows the truth that your lie is true. It is impossible.

    You are spiritually dead. You lack everything it takes to feel and all you do is think and think and think and think. You ask questions and arrive at answers and those answers give you more questions and more answers and more questions and more answers, but you know nothing. You feel nothing. You have found no true value in living . . . your life is nothing but theories. You are dead inside. I see it in you. You know it and I know it, whether you will confess or not.

    Actually YHYH literally translated means: "I will be, I will be"
    YHWH means "I am, I am" and YHVH means "I was, I was."

    YHVH, YHWH and YHYH together would mean - I was what I was; I am what I am; I will be what I will be."

    That is the evolving super-consciousness. Call it God, call it Tao, call it bullshit . . . doesn't matter . . . it is and if you cannot become one with it then your entire existence is in vain and "a meaningless chasing after the wind."
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  13. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Energy is everywhere. If energy is everywhere and all energy is moving and only a form of consciousness can move energy to create matter, then consciousness is everywhere. If consciousness is everywhere then God is everywhere because God is consciousness.

    What is empirical proof? Prove that you are actually having a conversation with me, empirically, and that this entire life of yours isn't actually just a bad dream that you're having. Prove it, empirically. Can you? Didn't think so. You can try to convince me that I am here and that you are not simply dreaming me up, but you can't prove it to me. It is impossible. Does that make it true? Am I really just a figment of your imagination simply because it cannot be proven empirically?

    Love cannot be proven empirically.
    Does that mean that love does not exist?

    ???

    If you don't want to believe in God, fine. I'm not trying to convince you, pal. I don't care either way. But, if you ask me a question and I give you an answer, don't attack me for answering you by saying, "Why did you answer me!? Why are you trying to change my mind!?" [funny] That's just retarded. If you don't want the answer, then don't ask the question.


    Spiritual is a word.

    No, God is neither a He nor a She. God is both and neither one, at the same time.
    I know that you cannot comprehend that, because you view the world as divided, as a duality between "this or that" . . .

    No, energy is what God uses to manifest matter.

    Empirical evidence again?
    Dude, you're silly.

    Proof only exists through experience. If I tell you that the Grand Canyon is amazing and you've never been to the Grand Canyon and you don't want to go to the Grand Canyon and you refuse to experience the Grand Canyon but then you say to me . . . "PROVE IT! PROVE IT IS AMAZING EMPIRICALLY! YOU CAN'T AND SO IT ISN'T AMAZING!"

    This is the game that you are playing.



    [funny]


    What is truth, Menaz?
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  14. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Religion is entertainment.
    War is entertainment.
    Dancing is entertainment.
    Fighting is entertainment.
    Painting, Writing, Hiking, Swimming and Fucking are all entertainment.

    Just because you are not entertained by Religion, that doesn't mean that isn't why it came into existence. It was formed, originally, to create unity among the people, through entertaining ideas and concepts. It evolved, as do all things (including our consciousness and awareness) into very different things . . . but make no mistake, Religion is entertainment.

    [funny]

    Perhaps that is all that it was for you. That would explain why you left it under the deluded perception that it was worthless. It didn't give you the answers you were looking for because you were unable to find the answers in it. The answer is in everything because the answer brought all things into being. Find it where you may, there is only one truth and it cannot be spoken. It cannot be taught. It cannot be learned. It can only be lived. The most one can give you is the formula for attaining that answer. They cannot give you the answer.

    Science is similar to being intoxicated. One drowns their sorrows away in it, one alters what their reality really is with it, one influences the killing of the heart in themselves and others with it. You are simple minded.

    :wink:


    What is this super-organism, Menaz?

    [funny]

    Menaz, nothing of material form is true. It only gives an appearance of truth. Matter can be manipulated by energy and changed, at the will of the individual.
    A scientist would say that walking on fire without burning yourself is physically impossible. A scientist would say that walking on water, without falling into it, is physically impossible. Yet, men have done both, in front of scientists and proven that it is possible. Everything is impossible until the consciousness in an individual makes it happen, then it becomes real. Science is no more or less delusional than religion or psychiatry or any other form of human entertainment.

    [funny]

    Yes, I believe in Consciousness. If there is no consciousness, then there is nothing. Now, whether I call that Singular (Totality) Consciousness God or Tao or Won or Allah . . . it makes no difference. My meaning is meaningful, not the word that I use. It is the same with all things.

    An apple, if called a pear, is an apple.
    A basketball, if called a football, is still a basketball.

    "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." - Shakespeare
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  15. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    *delete*

    I'm not doing this all public like. Ghet, you know what's up. Far as I can recall, you need to fix an HD and get me the sessions that have already been recorded and/or mixed. Tie up loose ends.

    Solid work.
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  16. If any of my personality has rubbed off on you during what is now almost two years of working together, then you would know if I was talking about you, I would have called you out by name.

    It was about my former boss. You know him.
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  17. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    ay honestly that ish made you sound like meatwad from ATHF
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  18. Funny you should mention that...

    -____-
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  19. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    there is no good and evil.
    Is it evil when one country attacks another? No.
    The hypocracy is one is seen as evil the other is seen as good.
    But there is no Good or evil. There is only what a organism does to survive.

    I don't think as humans we can determine what is good and what is evil.
    That is a blured the line of perception compared to sociobiology sturcture.

    There is no tree of knowledge. You could put a kid in the happiest home sheltered from everything you consider evil and those kids will still follow their natural survival instincts.

    This is seen on every sociobiological level. All species war with each other good and bad are the Surface illusion.

    That wasn't a rant, that was a rebuttle to you're long ass off the topic unnecessary diatribe. Which of course, you totally ignored, and pressed on with you're usual poppycock.

    I'm telling you what is underneath the surface but since you have not been enlightend to what I've been enlightend to you'll never agree with me ever.
    You will keep arguing the surface illusion the bible has instilled in you. I understand the surface really well. The surface illusion of good and bad is something indocternated and it bores me to think about such factless common knowledge.

    "what are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchres of God?"



    You can't prove God to me for once you're correct. So stop talking about God when you address me. Stop pushing you're crutch "God" on me. I don't need it.
    I do not care about your mental illness known as "God".
    And it is a mental illness, because you're like a schizophrenic with it.
    You need me to believe in it because you believe it is there.
    I'm sick of you addressing me with your little fantasy God world.
    It keeps you from discussing the topic ever time.
    You're the only piece of shit on this site who pushes this God complex which you can't even prove excepting people like me to by into such poppycock. Shave you're self the time, I don't give a Goddam.
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  20. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    I am sure. I read biopsychology.
    You are not aware so you babble out of ignorance.




    This is why discussion with you is rediculous. Infact, You sound just like doubleml only you write longer nonsense talking about God 24/7 which is annoying as hell and waaaay off topic. There is nothing to experience you're God is not even empericially provable. So stop telling me God exists when you have no empericial proof for such a claim. If anything your God is insanity because it makes you do the samething over and over without a result. What you actually have is one Guy who's been religiously indoctornated falsely to believe God. The process of indoctornating God works like torturing insurgents, you get them to believe and say exactly what you want them too. However, that doesn't make it empericially proveable. In other words, You are rambling like a dogmatic ignormaous as usual. And stop acting like you're the only one who has tried this God thing out. Truth is you're delusional, weak, and need the crutch. You have no right without empericial proof to tell me what God is.


    Nurture is a mammal emotion part of the neocortex noded through the neural web of the global mind. Hate is a reptilian emotion part of the neocortex noded through the neural web to the global mind. Color blind people have a problem with perception. Color blindness is typically a genetic condition, and it is much more common in men than in women. Approximately one in 12 men has at least some color perception problems. Less common, acquired deficiencies stem from injury, disease, or the aging process. Also, although not called "color blindness," when people age, their corneas typically turn yellowish, severely hampering their ability to see violet and blue colors.


    You're right I don't have a mental illness or disease. So shut the fuck up.


    Empirical evidence for the 20th fucking time.
    What's that there is none, shut up then.


    We should be open minded, but not so open minded our brains fall out.

    God is nothing like that. The mathematics exist.

    So you admit you have no empirical evidence and now you admit you're a fool for rejecting God doesn't exist. lol

    Not true. Ever seen that movie A clockwork orange? lol
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