Is Muhammad the final prophet?

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by M-theory, Feb 11, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,468
    Did he really make such a claim?
    Where (precisely) is this documented?

    Thanks to anyone who can help.
    • Hot Thread Hot Thread x 1
    test
  2. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,468
    After some further digging, I was able to locate the exact quote from the Qur'an; Sura 33 Aya 40 states: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things."

    Source: Khatam an-Nabuwwah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    test
  3. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,670
    that's pretty much what i was going to post.

    in addition.

    in terms of when he claimed to be the final prophet himself, following hadith.

    now that i've answered the question, i'd like to add i asked my this many times.

    because in our shihaadah (the pledge that makes one a muslim), it translates to:
    i testify there is no god, but Allah.
    and that muhammad is the messenger of Allah.


    it never really claimed that he was the final messenger of Allah.

    but then again, in the qur'an (as you and i pointed out) and hadith, it's proven.

    :numaan:
    test
  4. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,468
    @Nu'maaN

    The shihaadah is actually one of the things I have had in mind which led me to this question. I just never got around to seeking an answer until now.

    The aya you posted is the same I did, just worded differently.

    A big thanks for the hadith though, that proves to be valuable, because of other possible interpretations. I didn't think the one mentioned in the wikipedia article to be convincing, but I did come across a post on a message board where a member of the Baha'i faith interpreted as follows:

    Muhammad: the Seal of the Prophets? (Jesus, Messiah, Revelation, experience) - Religious Education Forum

    Obviously because he's Baha'i he believes in prophets/messengers after Muhammad so his interpretation is bound to be different than the consensus among Muslims. But it is an interesting way to look at it nevertheless.
    test
  5. NatGeografik

    NatGeografik ********

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    767
    If you notice, the verse mention that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is not the father of any of your men, in reference that the Prophet didn't have children as one of the signs of the finality of Prophethood as Prophethood is inherited. Therefore, thats why Shi'as and most sects (like Bahias and Ahmedis) try to use the lineage through Ali, the father of the Prophet's grandchildren as a way to legitimize themselves and their call.

    There is no doubt whatsoever that the Prophet was the final Prophet, not believeing this essentially makes you a non-Muslim. Hence, why the Shias refer to who they follow as Imams and not Prophets, despite believing them to be superior to all prophets except the Prophet Muhammad.
    test
  6. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,468
    Thanks for your input, I find it interesting; and welcome to the forum by the way.

    Not really staying on the subject but I've recently taken an interest in the topic of continuing revelation, which most prominently believed by the Mormons/LDS. They have their own scriptures, again the most popular is the Book of Mormon. I don't personally buy into the Book of Mormon or any of their extra scriptures, but I don't have a harsh opinion about them (I have not read them). Another much smaller group that believes in continuing revelation is the readers of the Urantia Book; they're quite out there in terms of what they believe, if anybody is interested in checking them out.

    I think that continuing revelation is something that could be expected (I would probably expect it), that is UNLESS the claim of Islam (that the Qur'an is "perfect" in some sense, and that Muhammad is the final prophet) is true. I also don't see anything blocking most Christians from adopting new extrabiblical scriptures apart from there not being any real interest in doing so and that their general adherence to the biblical canon is simply the traditional way. But if I were Christian today I'd be looking for something NEW in addition the the Bible, as it would just make that much more sense than to follow the Bible alone. Maybe it wouldn't be all that new, as I wouldn't leave out the Qur'an from the equation.
    test
  7. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2000
    Messages:
    24,097
    wow i totally agree w/ that last couple statements.. however naive and close minded christian's would rather hold on to their idols. but ya i think that there will be the war between jesus and the anti-christ and after that age of life more prophets could come to prepare us for our next stage of spiritual evolution just like phyiscal world evolution. as for will there be one after muhammad and the end battle, before god reigns in the heavens and earth there will be many false prophets and very few truth speakers, and that the prophets n preachers will even say they are representing on behalf of the true king, and they will be a brood of vipers..

    i think we must continue to evolve religiously like qu'ran scripture suggests that allah bless's those that seek knowledge (or something along those lines) WE CAN'T just stay primitive with our faith.. it must advance. but some would call that heresy. but if we can't lose our self for the sake of the kingdom we won't see the kingdom of god in this age or the ages to come.
    test
  8. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,670
    yeah, they don't believe muhammad was the final prophet.

    with muslims, there's no room for interpretation though, it is what it is.

    here are a few more hadith that are directly related to the question posed.

    people like to interpret the hadith and ayat from qur'an to their own convenience.

    :numaan:
    test
  9. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,670
    the prophet did have children, but both his sons died in early childhood.

    his lineage was carried through from his daughters.

    there's another hadith that states: 'True' dreams are 1/46th of prophecy.

    so the revelations are still going to be present, it's just no more prophets will come.

    you're one of the few christians who allows the thought of other prophets.

    because jesus/isa never claimed to be the final prophet.

    he (isa) will return to slay the anti-christ.

    i hope my children are alive to see it.

    :numaan:
    test
  10. NatGeografik

    NatGeografik ********

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    767
    Prophethood is not inherited except through sons though, that why the verse says that he is not the father of any of your MEN

    Thats why sects always trace their lineage to Ali because he is the father of Al-Hasan and Al-Hussein, who were the Prophet, peace and blessing be upon him's, only male decendants

    *edit* oops, I just noticed I said that I did say he did not have children, that was a mistake, I meant male children.
    test
  11. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,670
    that was my point, brother cyrax.

    fucking mortal kombat ay.

    :numaan:
    test
  12. NatGeografik

    NatGeografik ********

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    767
    Are you really Kadafi or did I fall for a troll?

    :tsuwtf:
    test
  13. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3,275
    No, he was not a prophet.

    To make that claim would also include that what he had written is infallible. Specifically, the Quran. The Quran is full of much wisdom, yes. But it's also full of bullshit. It claims to be accurate, but upon closer examination, one can find much fault with it.

    Because this fault is found, Muhammad's claims of prophethood are bupkiss.
    test
  14. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,670
    it's so easy to say "upon closer examination one can find faults in it".

    please, without the help of answering-islam dot com, post some faults in it.

    while you're at it, do you mind also posting the "bullshit" that you so eloquently claim.

    i am.

    how did you know?

    :numaan:
    test
  15. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3,275
    Compare the Quran's interpretation of embryology with science. They don't match. Not only that, it's woefully incorrect.

    A text that takes itself serious enough to say it's infallible, because like a mighty tower held up by only a thin pillar of salt. Easily washed away with the waves of logic and reason.
    test
  16. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2000
    Messages:
    24,097
    test
  17. NatGeografik

    NatGeografik ********

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    767
    Thats funny, we say it is exactly like the interpretation in science... what exactly do you see as a problem with the Qur'anic interpretation?

    Also, do you find it odd that atheism isn't as popular with Muslim scientists and philosophers considering the modern Enlightenment movement was directly influenced by the Islamic Golden Age in science, math and philosophy?
    test
  18. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,670
    what i expected.

    no surah or ayat quotes, just random rambling acting like you know it all.

    you take it as you want, i believe it's the word of god. you don't. not my loss.

    even if prophet muhammad wasn't a prophet, he was the greatest leader.

    to undermine his ability to conquer so much without bloodshed, is to be ignorant.

    :numaan:
    test
  19. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3,275

    Diverting the issue does not help and is the recourse of those who live in shadows for the purpose to decieve. Was he a great leader who conquered much without blood shed? Sure. Is it odd that athiesm isn't popular amongst Muslim scientists? Not really. Not when you've actually seen a science text book from Saudi Arabia. It's quite dismal.

    Now, the real issue at hand is the legitimacy of Muhammad's prophethood. My argument is that he is not a prophet because the book he wrote has shown itself to be flawed and does not comply with actual reality. Now, if there is a dissonance between his writings and reality in which you will take his writings as fact and reality as false, then I have nothing to add. I can't argue with willfull ignorance.

    The question is, will it be worth my time to actually prove it? I can cite as necessary and will leave utterly no doubt that Muhammad wrote the Quran with knowledge at the time, much of which has shown to be false.

    Shall I proceed? Or will I be insulted and ignored with any attempt at actual discourse being futile?
    test
  20. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    I agree. i think the final prophet would know the ones that came before him...
    and probably shouldnt have to ask their wifes uncles
    test
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)