Im sorry but i can't respect any religion..

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by lyricalpriest, Jan 8, 2011.

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  1. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    i meant violence. but also supressing i don't agree with, and ima go and check each reference so i can give a better response, i don't think they are saying woman ain't shit, rather they are saying there is a reason why woman should behave a certain way towards man and vice versa...

    this nigga brough new testament verse and stumped me up... i got u mento, lemme see what i can do to help clear that up.


    but it don't say anywhere to stone a bitch now does it
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  2. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Well, the word 'suppress' in the bible means violence.

    There are portions you can even find alongside those verses that discuss how men should treat their wives - and it is not to treat them like shit, so I'm not going after you on "women are nothing" but I think these verses of interest nonetheless.

    Many Christian churches today do not allow women to be preachers. And many Christian families see the husband/father as the head of the household, to the same degree that it is said their wives are to submit. I'm positive that a lot of violent men use this to hold unmerited power over their wives and to beat them - even though the New Testament does not teach such. It really is a double edged sword. I still see it as something worth questioning, that we might gain a further understanding if possible.

    Well, technically in Islam men are to be stoned as well, so that's not the part you'd see as unjust on a gender basis. Mosaic law pushed for stoning as well, but of course we see in the Gospel where Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," which appears as some kind of revision. I'm not 100% sure if it's Sharia law in Islam which says that for stoning a man should be buried to his waist, and a woman who is being stoned should be buried to her neck or shoulders... or if that's just Iran's law? But anyhow, yeah, that's rough because they say if you can dig yourself out you walk free - there's definitely a bias towards men in this practice, especially considering that men are generally stronger and of greater size than women.
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  3. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    And I stress that this is not just the New Testament we are talking about, but this is Paul who says this. Paul was the guy who is responsible for much of the way Christianity is and was practiced both today and historically.

    He wrote Ephesians. I'm quite sure he wrote both Colossians and Corinthians - if I'm mistaken on one of these, the other was for certain. I guess all you really have to do is go to the beginning of each of these books to see that Paul wrote them or if it can be called into question - because Paul always introduces himself at the beginning of each book he writes as far as I know.

    But 1 Peter also teaches that wives be in subjection to their husbands, so not only was Paul convinced of this but also whoever wrote 1 Peter.
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  4. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    i love memento.

    i want to get a t-shirt that says the above.

    the only non-biased-attacking-all-faiths-the-same-way dude i've ever come across online ...

    [turn] ...
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  5. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    this is what the message of the new testament says about this:

    To give you direct scriptures here to look up, this one tells you how a husband and a wife SHOULD treat each other: Ephesians 5:20-33...

    "Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: And he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: But I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband."

    As you can see, a lot of that up there paints an image of a MUTUALLY loving relationship. You can also draw the conclusion with this and many other scriptures in the Bible that if one aspect of a scripture is TRUE, then the exact OPPOSITE is FALSE. So, if a husband is supposed to cherrish his wife and love his wife as he loves himself, then the opposite of that is FALSE. Just taking the word "cherrish", it means "to hold someone in high regard." Now, let's look at the antonyms that were given for "cherrish": Abhor, condemn, despise, detest, dislike, execrate, hate, scorn. So, we can then draw the conclusion that is God said to cherrish your wife, the opposite is what you should NOT do. Abuse easily falls into the description of abhor, condemn, despise, detest, dislike, execrate, hate, scorn...wouldn't you agree?
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  6. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    The wife submitting to her husband has to do with supporting the call of her husband. The woman was created as "help" for the man to continue in the calling God has for them. However in a marriage, its the union of the two people pushing on towards the same goal. So they should be supportive of each other. I dont understand tho why mo said women cant be pastors. Theres a lot of really good women pastors.
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  7. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    As I pointed out, you can find exactly those kinds of verses in the books I was taking the quotes from - which you did in Ephesians, exactly where I was quoting from. The 'mutually loving' idea you put forth is very much stressed when put in full context. However, by zeroing in like I did I don't feel that there was any distortion of the text (if you feel that way, just accept that it was not my intent, as I did address this in the post after the one where I showed verses - my intent was to clearly show these points of discretion - and I did not twist the word [of God] *italicized for added emphasis*).

    Viewing the full context does not / should not / could not permit you to dismiss the fact that women are expected to remain silent in church, and submit themselves to their husbands as they would to God. As long as you aren't overlooking it as if my point has no validity then I don't care what you believe. You're absolutely right that a loving relationship is promoted if choose to define love as being where the woman is ranked below her husband in the eyes of God and has no right to speak in the church, to where she should not even ask questions except inside the home of the couple. Maybe this is just another one of those word games.

    And let me say something on that, since I've decided to go there with this. My purpose behind the Word Games thread where I posted the video that guy made was not to attack the bible - just so we have that clear. What I think is that common language as we know it is so different from that which is expressed in the bible that many people who are unlearned in scripture are well incapable of deciphering what is actually being taught. It is a burden that the Christian must accept, to speak clearly and give a proper training in understanding what they are saying to those who are without a clue. When you use words that you in your heart of hearts should well know have very distinct meaning to you from what those words mean to common people, you would be doing a great disservice not to give a bit of notice to them, or a clear explanation to them, on the differences that are to be encountered by your use of the language they have heard but have different understandings of. (I personally won't have a problem with understanding it, so you at the very least don't need to worry about it with me.)

    I do however think there are some word games that Christians tend to play deliberately without being able to grant any reason whatsoever for why they hold such views. For example, you (or Payback, one of you - I think it was you) had said to me that "you can't deny something without believing it first" which is nothing but ad hoc bullshit intended to save whatever point you might have been trying to make beforehand - even though I had never even used the word deny. But you actually can deny something without ever believing it. Those are the kinds of word games I hate and will commit to expose you them on every time if you choose to play them.
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  8. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    There are women pastors nowadays, and I am aware of that but if you simply do a Google search on "Should women be pastors?" or anything like that I'm sure you'll find debate and differing points of view on it.

    In fact, here you go...

    Ordination of women - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Timothy_2:12_("I_suffer_not_a_woman")
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  9. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    So saith the Christian. The be all end all to you, but not all people - not all men and least of all (<-excuse the pun) not all women - think the same way. You know this already. Not even all Christians think that way - would you say they are true Christians, or are they just playing a game with themselves?

    WORD GAME ALERT - Supportive and submissive are two entirely different concepts. Try again. Where does it say men should submit to their wives?
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  10. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    It says submit one to another within a marriage. I can find the scripture if needed.
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  11. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    FIND IT. I will look at it with an eye of scrutiny.
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  12. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Ephesians 5:28
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  13. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    i appreciate ur views mento.. thanx for the clearification bro bro
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  14. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    um no that says nothing about men submitting to their wives. or submitting to each other.

    lp posted the verse up there somewhere.
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  15. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    1 Timothy 2:11-12 KJV
    (11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    (12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    Pretty sure God is clearly saying stfu bitch.
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  16. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    [youtube]jn06vgyCuhw&start=48[/youtube]
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