If Jesus Died for Our Sins....

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by SiFu, Jan 29, 2011.

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  1. SiFu

    SiFu Burning Down Babylon!

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    Why wasnt there peace or no sinning afterwards??

    Or was God going to kill everyone ala Noah and start again but Jesus died so he wouldnt have to???


    Always wondered what was meant by die for our sins...coz people still sinned after and people still went to war and killed each other after....in fact not much really changed after he died until now...dictators, murder, slavery etc etc


    Anyone know the official Church answer??


    PEACE
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  2. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    Jesus died for our sins to give us a chance to be able to repent for our sins and give us a hope for eternal life


    Adam was a perfect man...so to rectify that, a perfect man had to even the scales which was Jesus.


    because with Jesus dying for our sins, no man would have a chance to be saved


    quick answer for ya
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  3. SiFu

    SiFu Burning Down Babylon!

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    So before Jesus dying...no-one could be forgiven and goto heaven?? Moses wasnt a perfect man, neither was Solomon, or David and yet Im assuming they went to heaven and God forgave their sins?!?

    Adam wasnt a perfect man either....and neither was Jesus...he cursed a fig tree for not giving him fruit when he wanted it...he questioned God when he was on the cross....many examples of Jesus being an imperfect man.....

    Im not trying to be a dick about it I just truly dont understand.....

    to mention Moses again...he murdered a person, yet God gave him forgiveness and chose him to led the Israelites out of Egypt....why would he need to kill his own son in order to give us the chance for forgiveness aswell?? he was already forgiving people, for the most part anyway


    PEACE
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  4. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    No worries dude..

    Adam was perfect and so was Jesus. Perfect man don't die as in their bodies don't grow old and die like they do now. Adam grew old and dead because he sinned and lost perfection. Jesus was perfect even through death

    No one before Jesus could get into heaven. Jesus' death opened the gates of heaven. God killed people as well...women, children and old men....if God said to do it, you do it.
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  5. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Jesus was the sacrifice for your sins. B4 jesus they used to sacrifice lambs and calfs as attonment for sin. Since he never sinned he died in your place. So he got the wrath for everyone elses sin.
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  6. SiFu

    SiFu Burning Down Babylon!

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    Aiight I think I kinda understand a little bit now...

    The whole point about Him being the Sacrificial Lamb so now we dont have to Sacrifice animals for atonement.....giving people a more direct way to get forgiveness rather than blood ceremony....that makes sense....thanks....


    I wont bother speaking on Jesus as a perfect man or not....been a long time since I read the New Testament.....


    PEACE
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  7. *Deuce Wilde*

    *Deuce Wilde* aka stfu dave

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    DJ Jesus died for our spins
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  8. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Adam was created good but not perfect. Perfect men don't sin.
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  9. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    Yes he was...if Adam wasn't perfect he eventually would have died regardless of if he sinned or not...and they would not have died if they had not sinned...that's what made, Jesus remaining sinless, so grand because despite more trials and temptations, Jesus remained perfect...If Adam was just good, Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc could have evened the scales
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  10. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    word..
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  11. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    I think the Christian way of looking at it would be that God never intended for us to have to sacrifice animals for atonement. That was all in advance of Christ to prepare for His coming. We were basically trained to sacrifice animals leading up to this as a ritual, like a 'pre-enactment' of sorts - although Abraham was tempted by God to do the first with his son... so now Christ being God's son plays back to that, where God told Abraham not to lay a hand on his son instead saying He would send His own.

    But yeah, a funny metaphor for the animal sacrifices would be that they were crash test dummies in a car built for the sole purpose of killing a human.

    Blood atonement ceremonies using animals may not have saved anybody.
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  12. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Imperfection causes mortality? That's a very strange way of looking at things. The Bible says the wager of sin is death, not the wager of imperfection - which wouldn't be a wager at all since it's how God created you. Adam was created good. Not perfect.

    That makes no sense. See above.

    I'm not saying Adam wasn't created with a perfect record. Adam's slate was clean. He didn't need to be saved by Jesus at that time. He was good. He was faultless. But he wasn't perfect. To be perfect is to be without flaw. Man has always been flawed, yes even Adam was created flawed. It is man's nature to be flawed. It is a flaw to be given in to sin. God made us that way. God made Adam that way too.
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  13. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    What do you mean evened the scales? Jesus gave everyone an easy way out, he didn't even the scales. If Jesus merely evened the scales, then the Second Coming would be the same as the first. Jesus would need to be sacrificed yet again. You're saying He didn't get the job done the first time, basically.
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  14. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    The wage sin pays is death which means we die because we are sinful. Adam was created perfect then sinned which is why we all sin and die naturally. When we die, our sins are cleared. If God created Adam to be just good instead of perfect, he was pretty much just setting us up to fail. How many creators/inventors build/create something intending them to be imperfect? You wouldn't build an less than perfect car than expect it to be perfect than get mad when he isn't. I understand that you believe that perfection can't sin but that is wrong. Everyone has the will to do as they please. God doesn't force people to serve him and that would intend that they do. Adam chose to sin, he wasn't tricked. If it was a given that it was impossible for a perfect man to sin Satan would not have bothered tempting Jesus.


    ok i read this part after my earlier post so let me go into this part now. Beside the part in God creating us imperfect, wouldn't that make God and Jesus imperfect? We were originally created in His image, Gen 1:26, 27. Romans 5: 12speaks about how through one man sin entered into the world. verse 14 talk about how death ruled as kings over adam down to Moses and even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam but was still stuck with sin because they inherited it.

    Adam would not have died if he had not sinned because he sinned when he disobeyed God and ate the fruit. God said he would die if he ate the fruit. He was sinful the moment he ate the fruit which is why we now sin naturally which wasn't the case before hand
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  15. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    Jesus was the Ransom sacrifice. So when Adam sinned, someone who was of equal value had to die to rectify that. This is why people like Abraham (who was God's friend) could not be this sacrifice. If your child was abducted, which i pray never happens, the abductors expect you to pay them the value of the child. You can't pay $25 and expect to get your child back. If Adam wasn't perfect then Abraham could have been this sacrifical lamb.

    The 'second coming' doesn't have anything to do with Jesus being sacrificed. If i understand you, the second coming is when Jesus leads his angels to save his people here on earth and rid this world of the devil and his demons. That wouldn't be possible if Jesus had not come here to died. The second time he is here, he will have a much different duty
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  16. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    So if your argument is that Adam was perfect since He was made in God's image, then because Adam was made in God's image and made perfect - and sinned - what reason is there to trust that God won't sin? Because according to what you are saying, it is God's idea that it is perfect to give oneself over to evil.
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  17. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    Jesus said that he is similar to his father, Jesus never sinned so it's more reasonable than not that God would not sin.

    No...when a perfect being sins, perfection is lost. Sin dwells in heaven, the demons and Satan are all sinners
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  18. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    He said "I and my Father are One." Not similar, but One.

    Either when Adam sinned he was doing so as a perfect being or he wasn't a perfect being. If to give oneself over to sin and lose perfection is a choice made by a perfect being (Adam, as you say). How does a perfect being make an imperfect choice?
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  19. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    one as in perfect copies not one as in the same being


    free will...there was sin in heaven...Satan chose to sin, Adam chose to sin...

    What is your definition of perfection btw?
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  20. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    adams sin condemned humanity. If he was perfect there wouldve been no reason for jesus to die to correct his mistakes. The bible says "like sin entered the world threw one man (adam) the sins of the world similarly were able to reconciled man back to God threw one man (jesus)"
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