If I could pick Wanderlei and Chuck's next opponents...

Discussion in 'MMA, Boxing & Other Combat Sports' started by Mac Sabbath, Jan 6, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    That outcome had virtually nothing to do with reach and everything to do with Couture getting caught while using his superior head movement. It was a punch that brock was likely to land once but Couture couldn't take. Brock's big hands had more to do with it than his longer reach.
    test
  2. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    Yeah, "whoop" was an exaggeration on my part. I do that.
    test
  3. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,744
    To get a knockout, it has nothing to do with power. It's the placement of the punches. Most fighters, if the placement of the punch is on point, can knock people out. The question really becomes, how well can they land the punches accurately? Silva is much better at that.

    And even out of the clinch, Silva out-struck Franklin (one of the best stand up in the division). And that Cote fight... I had no idea WTF Silva was doing....

    And Hendo might overcommit the right but Wanderlei overcommits the left and the right... lol... he flings them and leaves himself open wayyyy too much for a great counter fighter to not counter him 'n drop 'em.
    test
  4. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,744
    No... Randy even said it in interviews after the fight. Go look for them. He said he thought he dipped far enough but his arm just kept coming and it ended up landing. It was because his arm length. He even blamed himself for not coming into the fight prepared for the 10 inch reach advantage.
    test
  5. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    Well, I wouldn't say nothing to do with power, but you're right about placement. It's a combination of the two. Since we're already talking about Brock vs. Couture, look at the shot that dropped him. NOT a typical target point you're shown when learning to punch.

    He doesn't really overcommit as far as I can recall, he just wings them with little regard for defense. I agree Andy would kill him if he fought like he did against rampage. What andy would do is back up and combo him. it'd be a one rounder. i think (and hope) wandy will be rethinking his striking now.

    but dan throws his right like he's superman soaring through the air or something. He's all out of position and screwed if it doesn't connect. He was actually doing okay against Anderson until he did that. If he would've kept it a grappling match, I think he would've stood a decent chance.
    test
  6. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,744
    Only because it's so close to being illegal. Illegal in MMA is considered anywhere behind the back of the ear. It was REAL close. And yeah, it's a combination of both but placement means a lot more than the power. You see big du's get knocked out on jabs if hit right on the correct spot...

    Yes, and I think that's overcommiting. When you swing so much you disregard the fact that you have to defend. Almost like when you reach too much in basketball and let the ball handler blow by you.

    No always. I've seen him do that too but I've also seen Vanderlei do it.
    test
  7. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    7,315
    hmmmm....you could easily replace Leben's name with Wanderlei and it would still be amazingly accurate [dunno]
    test
  8. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    True, but now there's a precedent, I believe both men would approach the fight differently. Besides, look at the resumes, and you'll see Wandy has the muay thai experience. It's not like he's never learned more technical striking, he just abandoned it long ago because he was doing fine without it. Now, he knows his chin is weaker and competition is better, so he claims he's going back to basics.
    test
  9. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    That's you after the last Anderson fight. If you read my posts here, we're basically saying the same thing.

    and if you think Wandy does nothing but push forward, then you haven't watched all of his fights.
    test
  10. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    7,315
    hmmm...I know you are a W. Silva fan and all, but lets be honest; this guy is what he is. Just because in some of his earlier fights he was capable of being technical and countering, doesn't mean he is still capable of that. He tried that vs Rampage, and then the inner brawler came out and he got his ho card pulled. Wanderlei isn't elite anymore sorry [dunno]. (I actually don't believe he was ever as good as his hype. Pride did a lot to feed him favorable stylistic match ups.)
    test
  11. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    Ha. People complain about Wandy fans, but bandwagon haters are much worse. I mean, wow. Just read this quote.

    - Wanderlei just got caught by probably the best ufc striker (when it comes to hands) at 205. It started out with him doing alright, Page backed up into the cage, Wandy followed and started getting a little too excited, and he got caught. Simple as that. It's very common for people to take dumb chances against someone they've already beat, and that's what he did. A rematch could very easily go either way.

    - As for he is what he is... umm, are you pretending he hasn't improved at all like he didn't just stuff a takedown from a really good wrestler? Wandy of old got taken down at will. To assume that he won't get his striking science together just because he's gotten this far leaving most of it behind is silly. He stated himself that he needs to get back to basics.

    - The protected in pride argument is a silly one concocted by people unfamiliar with overseas fighters and grappling vs striking.

    His resume:

    He beat Mirko Cro Cop in their first fight, and he's one of the best technical strikers of all time. He beat Dan Henderson in their first fight, and he's an olympian. Demolished Sakuraba when Sakuraba was the man, which is more than can be said for Rampage and Vitor. Beat a Quinton Jackson that absolutely destroyed Chuck Liddell in his prime. Lost a close decison to Mark fucking Hunt in a fight Randy Couture thought he won. Whooped a number of good and great grapplers when grapplers are supposed to beat aggressive strikers.

    and he just destroyed Jardine, who is overlooked because he got knocked out by a couple hard hitting motherfuckers. Nevermind he took Chuck's punches, beat Vera (a really good technical striker), and destroyed Forrest Griffin.

    [dunno] I really don't know who he was supposed to have fought that he didn't fight. Shogun?

    He never was and never will be #1 p4p, but he's still very capable of being a factor in any UFC division.
    test
  12. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    7,315
    Hater? Dude, I love Wanderlei. I love watching that dude get knocked the fuck out. How is that hate [dunno]
    test
  13. Cognitive D.K

    Cognitive D.K New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    4,832
    wandy was a savage and he still makes for exciting fights

    i honestly think he was bigger/roiding in japan and he cant do that here... thats just MY opinion

    i also think he is one of those guys who peaked a little earlier and will probably fall off a little earlier too.... id say he has some good fights left in him but hes not far behind matt hughes/chuck etc in heading downhill be it quickly or gradually
    test
  14. ForeShadow.

    ForeShadow. Topical Swag [ON]

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    697
    i think that would be cool but wandy would kill leben
    test
  15. Cognitive D.K

    Cognitive D.K New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    4,832
    leben has a punchers chance.... anything can happen when 2 guys go in swinging

    lebens left is brutal
    test
  16. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    I know youre not the first to say this, but I honestly don't see it. Actually, watching his older fights, I think he looks much more ripped now than he ever was in Pride.

    Besides, I'm not convinced juice does much for you in MMA. Look at GSP beating Sherk, or Anderson beating Irvine. People claimed Cro Cop's downfall was a result of American testing, and then he goes back overseas and looks just as bad. The latest accusations are against Overeem. Silliness.

    and yeah, Brazilians love their fighting, so they really go at it at an early age. That's why you see these guys drop off in their early 30s. Wandys taken hooks his whole career from the likes of Mirko and Mark hunt, but since Hendo he doesn't seem to be able to do it anymore.
    test
  17. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    Yes.

    I remember you being the first one on the anti-anderson tip after his last fight.

    now if Machida loses, I'm guessing you'll be all over that as well. Not that I mind; it's good for post count and views.
    test
  18. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9,777
    as for Leben vs. wand, i think i'd actually probably give the slight edge to leben. Wand really needs to get back to clinching and knees and kicks, but until I see it I gotta give it to Leben's youth.
    test
  19. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    7,315
    No offense, but I hate this logic. Anti-Anderson? Anderson is my second favorite fighter after Rashad. I love Anderson. I really hate how here and on sherdog whenever people say anything remotely negative about a fighter it gets labeled fighter bashing or being "anti" someone. Its almost cult like if you feel you can only speak positively about someone otherwise you are anti that fighter smh....disgusting.
    test
  20. Heat Devil

    Heat Devil Macastopheles

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    168
    I can't speak for everyone else. Personally I'm just talking about people that read too much into one fight. Like if Fedor loses, watch how many people start coming out of nowhere saying negative shit about him. Those are the bandwagon fans I'm talking about.

    And Anderson's my current favorite fighter, but look what happened when I mentioned that Wandy could possibly beat him. I even indicated that I wouldn't bet on it, but that it could happen.

    I'm partial to all muay thai guys. I began liking Wandy because he was the first MMA guy I really saw utilize clinch and knees. And then I started noticing his Tysonesque image and thought it was pretty badass. And then Anderson shows up in UFC and drops my jaw with his overall greatness.
    test
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)