Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Nu'maaN, Aug 15, 2011.
The hilarious thing about that is, it never occurred to you if I was being facetious or not. Nice.
Shut up, idiot.
Don't go do something damaging like edit my quote now.
OMG get a clue! You don't value intellectual honesty, you refuse to deal with your needy desire to tell others how they should think.
There never was any assumption.
If this isn't a blatant display of your own intellectual dishonesty, may God strike me dead.
So you're psychic too? lol
You niggas are fuckin clowns.
I think the audacity involved in suggesting you were actually being facetious after someone tells you that you can't tell with another person is being facetious is a mediocre hack job at best, but you failed to hit that mark.
I think that after you have misconstrued nearly every post in this thread that you have replied to (including the OP) that it becomes an issue of probability. Am I being unjustly suspicious of you? I don't know. You could just be ignorant of the idea that thinking is superior to writing when it comes to knowledge. As for MY intellectual dishonesty, it's just a mechanism of response I use to deal with people who miss the fucking point and then tell me that I'm speaking complete stupidity and need to work on not being wrong because THEY place very little importance on having a correct interpretation of anything that shows a hint of opposition to their bias.
I made a valid point when I told you how it was that you implied what you refuse to admit to implying.
I honestly wouldn't know if I were being devious in making a guess, why? Are psychic techniques one of your specials?
uhh how would an atheist fear the concept of an afterlife if they dont believe in it
1 big problem w atheism is that death can only be interpreted as the ultimate end of everything. and i think ,because of thatm, an atheist view of death is that of death as escape; vs death as return or death as continuing your journey into yet more new and other stages, to grow and to learn more about reality .
death as escape seems very harsh to me
there seems to be a sense of absolutely nothing to look forward to more than your ability to finally leave - to finally escape, as though the big reward is the abilityto finally put down a heavy rock you had to carry for too long. as though the burden is finally over. that seems to be the only reward an atheist can draw from death
but uh ueyeah i dont think atheist fear afterlifes or anything like that. i think they just straight up dont care one way or the other...
but as always its easy to say that but harder to feel that way as we age i think and we grow more and more sentimental and gay towards things
nigga u gay
I wouldn't suggest to you that you fear the concept of an afterlife,
but to clarify, and I'll just use me as a template, to say that I think
fearing the concept of an afterlife can be developed in the same
way that I fear the concept that all our ideas could be completely
subjective in the grand scheme of things, that regardless of the
fact that we can actually make sense of nature, make use of this
knowledge as a means of constructing a model of reality to fit our
current existence in the cosmos ... a greater purpose may actually
be at play and yet to make another use of a quote from the movie
Edge of Darkness, in the sense that it may apply here, "That's your
objective, to make it so convoluted that anyone can have a theory,
but no one's got the facts."
To say that there is no fear of concepts if we do not believe them,
it's sort of like saying we shouldn't have caution about our actions
because "that would never happen to ME." Sometimes it's good to
have a sense of caution. I think caution is usually a more spirited
approach than fear.
And just for the record, I don't fear any concept pertaining to afterlife,
but I do think delivering a verdict on the matter should be a reserved
nod with the mind to reckon ourselves among humans, to recognize
the benefit of differentiating the distinct individuals, organizations, or
ideologies, philosophies, methods of reasoning, and so forth.
If I believed there was God in the sense that many suggest that there
is, if that was a thought in my mind that a God like that was what God
would likely be (even when just speculating IF that God did exist), I
can tell you Nu that I would have some kind of a fear in the concept of
I believe I get where that thought comes from Nu, and if I'm
right it comes directly from types of things that a lot of atheists actually
say. Atheists tend to paint a picture of an idea of God that they have in
their heads when they are arguing against the religious. And in these
representations that atheists give, there is an ample amount of room to
suggest that if this is what they assume God to be then fear of afterlife
if they are wrong is likely to be amplified if it were brought to the fore.
I can't speak for all atheists, but I don't personally conceive of God as
being that. But some people do, and because of this there are going to
be arguments made against it, whether or not this is in fact how that
atheist thinks a God would have to be. You even see atheists saying
that if God does not fit a particular mold, then why would you call it a
god? This usually has to do with things like being all-knowing or all-
powerful which are generally the kinds of things seen as fitting for God.
But when it comes to the afterlife, this is just not a necessary concept
as it relates to God's existence in the eyes of all atheists. It might be for
some, but many bring up these ideas because it's in the believer's faith.
Not every atheist would even say ever that they have a concept of God.
Some atheists just go by what they hear, argue against those positions.
As for me, I'm capable of lining up an array of personal understandings,
and just the very idea of some of these "eschatologies" that are taught
perplex me more than anything. They make me feel like it's a maze I'm
supposed to be navigating in order to figure out a hidden meaning in it.
Not sure I have the patience. If this is typical of what you mean by "fear"
of the concept then consider me "scared for my life," honestly. But if it's
about being afraid that there might be some place where people go when
they die to experience reward or punishment, or even just exist forever
then I don't really fear any of that. I suppose that if it were to come down
to facing some grand punishment then the fear might come in that time.
Let's put it like this, you don't fear the concept of a missile striking you
in your sleep tonight do you? I'm not saying we don't fear the concept of
that happening to somebody in a country trodden with war where these
things happen and we have this empathy that resides with us. I fear for
that, and I understand that in this world it is feasible that this isn't just
something that could happen in another country.
It could happen to us.
But I don't have that immediate fear that it could happen to me because
it's highly unlikely in my considerations about what I can expect given
my view of what I think is feasible this very day. It is feasible that some
other country could develop nuclear weapons, as we know is the case
with Iran. I know that some governments have expressed worry over this.
I honestly don't know that if nuclear weapons do finally get developed in
Iran that I should worry that my fucking home is going to be trashed by a
maniacal leader or if this is just some irrational worry because of what
history has given us with dictators like Hitler and Stalin. I don't know a
whole lot about what Iran's leadership is capable of. All about dictators?
I do not know that either. I'd be cautious about any dictator. More about
what they would do to their own country, than what they would do to me.
I'm cautious about my government. I'm sure my appetite for worry can in
fact be played on by the media, and if there is a lot of talk about Iran in the
future, then I might get scared.
The same way, if I were to be inundated
with ideas about what could happen to me in the afterlife, I would
probably have my mind warped into experiencing a feeling of uneasiness,
which I believe that I could even move myself to experience that uneasiness
and yes, fear also. My skepticism doesn't branch out from this type of fear,
but it does enact a pretty good defense in the case that I were to be told
that I was going to some treacherous place to be punished for living life
by millions, billions of people. I don't really look to use skepticism for that
purpose because I assume that people who go around making extreme
comments with the raging attempt to do harm to somebody are idiots for
reasons a lot less complicated than the answers they might derive at if
they ask themselves "Is it real?"
I think they are idiots because of their raging attempts to do harm to somebody. It's that much simpler for me.
As for books and things that deal with the subject of the afterlife, and
state the concepts, I have no reason to shy away from learning about it.
I'm less afraid of reading about the subject than I am reading about some
of the shit that happens in THIS lifetime. This life is a lot more scary to me
than the afterlife. As for what is in the fore of my mind that I might consider
scarier to me, I think that's probably just because it occupies more of my
mind than the afterlife does. Like, I tend to be more scared of the idea that
I would believe in some religion for my entire life and have it end up not to
be true - but I admit that this to me seems a lot less scary than the afterlife
concept if I were to go to the punishment place, because the circumstance
changes the context. If I believed what I believed: nothing to be scared of.
Except that if I believed in the afterlife concept, that would be something to
be scared of. What makes the afterlife concept more scary than believing in
a wrong religion is obvious, but it doesn't occupy the mind everyday and
when it does come up, the impression that I'm going to be punished there
generally serves to reinforce my belief that justice requires for wrongs to be
punished, and if I am wrong and I have to go to that place I can't really
argue with that. I'll go there and be punished. I'm willing to lose a shot at
eternity if it means everything will be right in both Heaven and in Earth.
I don't know if that's the true meaning contained inside the Bible, but think
it makes a heck of a lot more sense than some of these Christian doctrines.
I think Jesus served justice for everybody, and the idea of him dying...
the resurrection can only be relevant if it is just a symbol for a movement that
started "three days later" ... the church is called the body of christ, yet I
don't know if today's teachings mean the same in our time anywhere as they
did then. I don't know that the movement that started after the crucifixion
exists anywhere today. I can't say if Christ teaches the movement that
took its form from those who lived in his lifetime. I can't say that he teaches
any movement that has ever existed, and I can't say that he hasn't taught
every movement that has popped up after the crucifixion up until now. At the
end of the day, if there's a true "Christian" doctrine it rests with Christ, if
that be long gone, or if that be in heaven. If it exists on earth, I do not know.
I do not know if Christ's true doctrine is something I consider to be sound
either because I don't know what it is.
Where there's a will, there's a way. There are many wills, and many ways.
Don't just do what suits ya, do what boots ya.
That's my fucking motto. Live by it. Die by it.
Fuck anyone who shows unacceptable disrespect for you if it also unacceptably disrespects themselves.
Oh yeah and I've observed that most atheists online *cough* NightmareX *cough* are idiots who approach basic functions of reason dogmatically in the methods they use to convince people, as if they haven't yet weened themselves from the teets or removed their training wheels. They are good at sucking you in when they use actual arguments that have been made against the existence of God, but everything else is pretty much intended to be a parody of the way fundamentalists think. Either that, or the American education system is truly at an all-time low, and we should all be laughing.
They also appear to elevate "guru" figures on YouTube not unlike the Truth Movement.
I've always thought it was a pretty horrendous approach to being taken seriously, but you know, there's a sucker born every minute. While a few of them actually deserve a bit of respect, some have big issues, and even of the few that do deserve respect some of them have big issues.
Of course, no atheist would ever admit to the claim that they look to YouTubers as gurus, nor would the Truthers admit to this, nor would the Creationists, but you can tell just by looking at the popularity of some of these YouTube channels that there are many nutters of every type there.
As much as there's enjoyment and sometimes helpful shit to be found in these videos, I wouldn't recommend them for much more than introducing subjects for the lazy.
Consult texts, consult books, consult people directly about themselves. It's great and all that there are people (atheists) sharing information, and even better that they're not all out there trying to mislead you.
But it's a much more difficult road, and I think people need to get their priorities straight. I've had a lot of laughs along the way but I do take learning seriously... about everything. So if you're not the least bit interested, then you can take the nearest highway, or you will become the target of my brand of comic relief since I've already had so much fun playing your side of the coin.
I'm also a giant nutter myself.
Forgive the sexual connotations.
Oh yeah and I've observed that most believers online *cough* Memento *cough* are idiots who approach basic functions of reason dogmatically in the methods they use to convince people, as if they haven't yet weened themselves from the teets or removed their training wheels. They are good at sucking you in when they use actual arguments that have been made against the existence of God, but everything else is pretty much intended to be a parody of the way fundamentalists think. Either that, or the American education system is truly at an all-time low, and we should all be laughing.
Yea, get the fuck out of here with the condescending bullshit. You hypocritical son of a bitch. You seem to imply on one hand that you want civil discourse that's honest academically, and yet you still portray yourself like a fuckin clown. GTFO.
Last I checked I'm still an atheist, for all the people who value honesty.
And yeah, a whole lot of believers ARE dishonest with themselves and spread misinformation to others. Preachers spread misinformation to others. There's a lot of dishonesty. Last I checked, there weren't any real Christians posting here, EVER. Just Atheists or Ex-Christians, and a Muslim. This is like the fucking Tru'maaN Show.
is there like an atheist vs. atheist war going on now? atheist have been the only people argueing lately about...nothing.
Separate names with a comma.