i encountered a christian who told me

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by reggie_jax, Feb 8, 2011.

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  1. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    that jesus never spoke of a literal hell

    that he used the hebrew word gehinnom which referred to a specific valley in israel, where bodies of those who died in sin were burned. this word along with the more ambiguous hebrew concept of 'sheol' were both later translated into the anglo-saxon concept of 'hell,' which we now have today.

    sheol was an early jewish conception of the afterlife, a place of darkness where souls were separated from god. he said the reference to the damned being sent to the flames to destroy both body and soul referred to more of a final death or 'separation from god' rather than eternal torture in a literal hellfire, and that the flames of gehinnom that he was referring to would have had a specific meaning and significance for people living in that place and time.
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  2. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Your right the word hell is not in there. Those are the biblical names for it also hades and sometimes the grave was referencing it as well. Also tartarus is the lower level.
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  3. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Jesus did reference " and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it"
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  4. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Gehenna was where infants were burned and sacrificed, I had learned. It is the figurative equivalent of Hell (or the literal equivalent, depending on how you look at it) that Jesus referenced in the Gospels. It has been decided that Jesus' usage of the word Gehenna was a colloquial term for the place that Christians call Hell. Why mostly every english Bible still translates it to Hell when there is the other word that was used ("Gehenna", obviously) is something that still strikes me with curiosity though.
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  5. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Its cus those were referenced as the temporary holding places not yet "hell" as paradise or abrahams boosm was to "heaven" at the time b4 jesus's decent and assention
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  6. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    i read the same thing on wikipedia (about the children being burned)

    so i guess its all down to interpretation as to how one pictures this figurative/literal hell that he spoke of? it's too bad, if this was a legitimate hole in the modern concept of 'hell' then it would actually bring christianity a step up in my eyes.
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  7. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    I'm not concerned about all that personally, but what I am interested in is why the word Gehenna which may have been substituted for what we now call Hell and was good enough for use by Jesus is now substituted with the word Hell that we term it.

    I mean this isn't the only word that is changed in a lot of bible translations to english. For example, where they might use the name "Jehova" or whatever term of address for God - this has all been changed to "the Lord" and where other words are used like "Elohim" and such, it is translated to God and so on.

    You know as well as I do that a Strong's Concordance is a very useful tool for anyone who wants to study the Bible back to it's original languages, and you also know that the religion places a reliance on maintaining the popularity of certain bible versions i.e. KJV, NIV, etc. You understand that a more definitive bible translation could be sold that upholds integrity more than these do. When will the novelty effect of these bibles finally wear off?
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  8. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Gehenna was an actual pagen worship/ site of sacrifice where people used to think was one of the gateways to the underworld. Its still there in isreal.
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  9. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    what i find odd is that the king james version didn't distinguish between earlier references to sheol and references by jesus to gehenna, but rather lumped them both into the 'hell' category. i'm not sure about the niv.
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  10. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Well, I think there's enough written about in the Bible to support the concept of a Hell, but I'm only five months out of my belief and would prefer to have a fresh look at it with new eyes. Interestingly, Jesus spoke a lot of certain people having eyes to see and ears to hear.

    Knowing that the most famous words of Christ are in parables, we must at least concede that when Jesus spoke of planting seeds and some of them landing on the rock - he actually had a message about the human condition in that... and many times, these parables are explained quite directly following the parables themselves.

    For the topic itself: I'm not entirely sure what the modern concept of Hell is around the world, but it's nice to see someone try to stand up and separate themselves from the bunch so the myriad of onlookers of the superficial Hell we tend to be subjected to by a lot of groups especially in America.

    Not sure how accurate I am in recollection of the facts but I think there are a lot of liberal Evangelical groups abound who have vastly different views than what we are familiar with - some of them reject what all the Calvinists and such see as integral beliefs of Christianity. I can't say I was ever perfectly sure of what I thought Hell was, nor did I feel the need to be.
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  11. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Actually I guess I'm about 6 months out now.
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  12. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    i dont think they will, simply cus when studying a specific scripture its actually very telling to go threw each translation. Theres good an bad things about any single version. I try an go to diff versions on any 1 topic and see each in comparasin.
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  13. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Biblegateway.org I suggest online is a good verse study site u can see just about every version available at one time
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  14. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    well i was catholic, so i was under the impression that hell was sort of like church except it never ended.
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  15. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Yeah, that's where the real problem arises - when different words get lumped and may be mistaken with one another. Not much integrity there. Pretty sure this isn't isolated to just those words either. Can't think of too many examples off the top of my head. It's saddening to me that the popularity of these versions go on rampantly among Christians. They don't question it, they just assume that this is the best version of the Bible. Even if it is the best version of the Bible on the market, it certainly is not the best possible version. The NIV on the other hand is famous for things like getting rid of the thee's and thou's. This may seem relatively arbitrary, and while I understand the urge to do away with them in this time - thee's and thou's serve a purpose and there are instances in the bible where drawing the distinctions become quite important for anyone who enjoys studying their bible on their own time. This is exactly the kind of thing where I'd say the King James Version suceeds and the the NIV likely fails - I've never really used the NIV too much so I don't know if all the thee's and thou's are entirely gone or not. But those who like the NIV probably want them gone if they still exist.
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  16. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    whats the difference between thee and thou?
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  17. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    We've had centuries to put together the best possible versions of the Bible we can, yet in 2011 many still hold dear to a translation from the early 1600's. It can be demonstrated that this version does not keep with the integrity of the literal sayings even of Jesus in the Gospels much less the rest of the Bible. Yet, some would beg to differ - I'm sure most don't, but there are a few wackos out there who believe the King James Version is the literal Word of God and any other version of the Bible doesn't cut it.

    I use the KJV a lot on my computer because in the e-Sword software I have one of the KJV's is entirely linked to a Strong's Dictionary, which is vital.
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  18. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    The same difference between Me and I. That's not where the real problem comes in. They're both singular. We're fine using the word you for each of these. But the distinction ought to be made between the singular Thou/Thee and the plural Ye/You. That's why we should have thee's and thou's. It makes things more clear.
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  19. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Sorry, I have a headache that's killing me.
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  20. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    It's quite interesting that the Ten Commandments are all Thees and Thous as opposed to Ye's and You's if you catch my drift. So where is the Christian basis for objective morality again?
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