Holy shit, that's funny... (Adam to Atom continuation)

Discussion in 'Writer's Block' started by Anaphora, Mar 26, 2004.

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  1. Anaphora

    Anaphora was here

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    Damn man... ok, I'm not sure if anyone here's been in a serious writers workshop, well, I'm sure at least some of you have. But to take the conversation from Adam to Atom here...

    If someone comes into your thread and says this is lame. Nothing at all is redeemable in this piece... then call them an asshole. Its happened to me before, its just bullshit. But if someone takes the time to read your whole piece, and give you a detailed response, you shoul at least think about what they say.

    In a real workshop, people are very harsh on your work, but by them being harsh, you are forced to see the flaws, even if they're small, in your work, an can not only edit that piece to fix them, but it will definitely help you remember what to watch out for in future writings.

    I think almost everyone hopes that the more they write, the better they'll write. But, if you refuse to see (or even consider what others perceive as) flaws, then you won't progress, as simple as that.

    I try to only respond to poems when I have the time to write out a detailed critique that will help the writer progress. I will never say 'this is retarded' unless its in my own thread. haha. If you only want to share a work, and not hear about what could be changed, (which is understandable if you are thoroughly over a poem you've been working on for a long time) I think you should preface it that way... something like, this is a finished poem, not looking for critiques, only reactions.

    As for all poetry being equal because of the feelings, thats simply not true. I think the example I gave before is a good one. You wouldn't say that a 2 year old randomly banging on keys is just as goo as Mozart, or Beethoven. And as Precipient said, you wouldn't say (lyrically at least) that Chingy is on the same level as Mos Def (or I'd put Sage Francis higher on the list even, but thats personal taste, they're both good.)

    I have to admit something though, I wrote something on here, I think I titled it as my own... er, keyed it or whatever, using the most cliched images I could think of... love as a flower, and single tears... to test the waters, and no one even mentioned the images being familiar. I think everyones too afraid to hurt peoples feelings. But I feel that if you don't say it like a dick, you're not being one.

    Then a couple other small things-

    Xero: As I've said many times, I have nothing against you man. I was just making comments I thought might help you for your next draft, and it snowballed from there.

    Misskey: Did I offend you somehow? I don't recall doing it... now and then I'll piss someone off on purpose, but I haven't one it in awhile. I think I've addressed the rest of what you'd posted in that thread here... its usually pretty easy to tell a serious critique from a dick move.

    This is really fucking long. Jumpin Jesus on a Pogo Stick..
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  2. Raz-Q

    Raz-Q Mad in Germany

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    At the risk of making myself unpopular, I'm with Anaphora here. Maybe it should be made clear by the writer if he just wants to "showcase" his work (mutual backpatting, etc.), or if he/she would also like some constructive criticism (note: "this blows" is not constructive criticism as such). However, Anaphora, since you haven't been around the rm realm for all that long, this isn't really a "workshop" where everyone posts solely just to improve their writing skills, so not everyone is looking for that kind of thing. It is nice to just read through other people's works without having to pick it apart and think of things that could be improved. I guess a balance needs to be found that satisfies the people showcasing their work, the ones that would like constructive feedback and ideas for improvement, the ones that just want to display their appreciation of a particular piece, and the ones wanting to give constructive feedback/criticism. Hmm. Hope this made some sorta sense [typekey]
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  3. h.wood

    h.wood IMAGINATION SUPER STAR

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    as far as i see it.. for a forum where people so carefully choose the words to put in their poetry they should be able to "constructively " critize anothers poem. to post up "this is lame" is offensive. choice words and alil explaination would be ok
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  4. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    Personally, I think Raz-Q said it the best. You, me, or anyone else, is not in the mind of the writer. Also, this is not a workshop. Anyhow, I finished my bit of conversation a while back on this whole thing. As far as me revising my work, it doesnt happen. If I don't like it, then it's usually never even bothered with again. If I like it, I don't excell for better, merely to say that I am satisfied with what I have. Not everyone is in a race to win it ya know? Some just enjoy the ride, while others enjoy the view. It's like having a relationship, and loving your woman with all that she is, accepting her flaws and embracing them as a part of her and her numerous imperfections. It's the same with some poets and their poetry. They don't write to please anyone other than their special one, and could give a care less if the spelling is off, or the rhyme scheme is wacked, or the structure sucks. I believe that poetry as individual as the person, yet knowing that we are all still just statistics, individuality is an entirely different topic.

    But to Anaphora, regardless to what you think, I appreciate the criticism on my poetry, it does help me better as an author on things other than poetry. But, when critisizing you can't be judge, jury, and executioner because it makes you seem very bias. I am not saying that you are, matter of fact, I am not saying anything about you other than you've got talent. I don't care what you, or a million other people have to say about my writing, to each his own, and an opinion is entitled to every person.

    Percipient, "But I feel that if you don't say it like a dick, you're not being one." think about that for a minute, you'll catch on.

    Ohh yeah, the music to poetry comparison, it's ok, but that's wrong. Baby's paint finger paintings all the time, and parents hang them on the walls, refrigerators, and so forth with the highest esteem of what their child could do. The same goes with poetry and even music for that fact. But, it's all in the sense of who's reading and writing, listening and talking, so forth so on. Ok, I wrote more than I wanted to, but hell, I gotta go...peace and blessings. Anaphora, if you're serious about the collab, you read the thread, follow the directions...
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  5. MISSKEYdaQUEEN

    MISSKEYdaQUEEN Watch the black panther..

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    OK...I see your point if the Poetry Realm was set up for the purpose of other poets picking your so-called flaws. But it's not. It's for sharing work with others who share the love of poetry. F*** a dayum poetry workshop! Do Hip hop artists go to "Hip Hop School"...noooo...at least most I know of don't. They are inspired by the love of hip hop. But they do it their way. So why try to find flaws. It's his piece, they are HIS "flaws", and what and who are you to say they are flaws?? Help me understand your purpose in pinpointing every aspect of "your opinionated" discrepencies(sp?) in his piece. Why. He didn't write it to fall under guidelines of the "Poetic Society of All That Makes Your Poem Right". Damn. Poetry is poetry...once you start to place limitations...it's bull...Flat out. F*** a workshop. Help me understand!
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  6. Raz-Q

    Raz-Q Mad in Germany

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    Don't get so worked up. Least he (Anaphora) wrote a lengthy reply (to Xero's poem) and put some thought into it. Give the guy credit for that, whether it was wanted or unwanted. Don't hate, appreciate :)
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  7. Anaphora

    Anaphora was here

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    Haha. OK here's my misunderstanding... I didn't really even consider that people would not want to hear constructive criticism in a forum like this, that's my bad. All the environments (except readings that is) have been in a workshop type of nature, where people take something they've written that they like, and are trying to make it better. Better as in conveying their exact ideas, feelings, tonality, images etc, so that the reader (be in their teacher, or Eddy who works at Burger King) can clearly understand, or at least come away with what was intended for them to come away with... (ambiguity aside). This has nothing to do with 'poetic society' or whatever. It has to do with poems being easy to read and understand. With taking something you've written, and enhancing it with hindsight, like everyone wishes they could do in life. You can't take everything that people say about your poem and change it, but you can take it into consideration, and dismiss it if you don't agree. There are very varied schools of thought when it comes to poetry, but one generally accepted idea (excluding language poety an paradoxicalists) that it should be understandable, and generally, an easy read.
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  8. MISSKEYdaQUEEN

    MISSKEYdaQUEEN Watch the black panther..

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    Point taken and understood...but that is why they go to a workshop. That is the point of the workshop. We post in the Realm not a workshop. But I see your point. Not feeling it, but I guess I understand. I ain't trying to do all that though. If I WAS in a workshop then I would.

    @ Raz-Q...I never hate..not always quick to appreciate either...but I respect your words!
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  9. Raz-Q

    Raz-Q Mad in Germany

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    Thanks, and likewise. :) Looking forward to reading more of your writings.
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  11. Anaphora

    Anaphora was here

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    Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. That is the biggest load of shit I've ever read. Anyone who says "blahblahblah is a way of life" is just straight up conceited. NOTHING is a way of life anymore. There used to be things like, if you lived in a village by the sea, fishing was your way of life. Poetry, is a way of 'release' at best, but if you honestly needed to 'journal' your life, write a fucking journal... and if people really did only write for themselves, there would be absolutely no reason to show anyone else, because it doesn't matter one iota if someone else says its 'dope'.
    Constructive comments shouldn't be insert two more feet here, take one out there, add another line rhyming with line C and you'll have a sonnet. It could be I guess, but thats not the type of things you see. Its more like The syntax of this line is awkward to fit the rhyme in, or its not very clear when you say...
    I don't get at all where you're coming off with the whole idea that people are commenting on the content of poems, or their message. Unless I'm simply reading the wrong poems.
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  12. Poetry maybe just a 'release' for you, but that doesn't mean that is all it can be. To me it is a journey, a progression that can capture my growth just as a journal or diary would. Just because you write for yourself, does not mean you do not share. You say if a writer writes for themselves that they have no need for sharing their poetry, that is the view of a concieted poet, who shares to be marketable to the reader.


    Define clear. Poetry speaks a million voices at different moments in time to different people. Your clear definition of how a line could be better is just your own, unless you are inside the authors head ofcourse. I just wouldn't approach a poet upon the content, I would teach them What I have learnt about form though if they asked.
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