Damn man... ok, I'm not sure if anyone here's been in a serious writers workshop, well, I'm sure at least some of you have. But to take the conversation from Adam to Atom here... If someone comes into your thread and says this is lame. Nothing at all is redeemable in this piece... then call them an asshole. Its happened to me before, its just bullshit. But if someone takes the time to read your whole piece, and give you a detailed response, you shoul at least think about what they say. In a real workshop, people are very harsh on your work, but by them being harsh, you are forced to see the flaws, even if they're small, in your work, an can not only edit that piece to fix them, but it will definitely help you remember what to watch out for in future writings. I think almost everyone hopes that the more they write, the better they'll write. But, if you refuse to see (or even consider what others perceive as) flaws, then you won't progress, as simple as that. I try to only respond to poems when I have the time to write out a detailed critique that will help the writer progress. I will never say 'this is retarded' unless its in my own thread. haha. If you only want to share a work, and not hear about what could be changed, (which is understandable if you are thoroughly over a poem you've been working on for a long time) I think you should preface it that way... something like, this is a finished poem, not looking for critiques, only reactions. As for all poetry being equal because of the feelings, thats simply not true. I think the example I gave before is a good one. You wouldn't say that a 2 year old randomly banging on keys is just as goo as Mozart, or Beethoven. And as Precipient said, you wouldn't say (lyrically at least) that Chingy is on the same level as Mos Def (or I'd put Sage Francis higher on the list even, but thats personal taste, they're both good.) I have to admit something though, I wrote something on here, I think I titled it as my own... er, keyed it or whatever, using the most cliched images I could think of... love as a flower, and single tears... to test the waters, and no one even mentioned the images being familiar. I think everyones too afraid to hurt peoples feelings. But I feel that if you don't say it like a dick, you're not being one. Then a couple other small things- Xero: As I've said many times, I have nothing against you man. I was just making comments I thought might help you for your next draft, and it snowballed from there. Misskey: Did I offend you somehow? I don't recall doing it... now and then I'll piss someone off on purpose, but I haven't one it in awhile. I think I've addressed the rest of what you'd posted in that thread here... its usually pretty easy to tell a serious critique from a dick move. This is really fucking long. Jumpin Jesus on a Pogo Stick..