Hitlers mistake

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Geedorah, May 24, 2013.

  1. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    It's not attacking the Russians that's the issue.

    It's invading and occupying Russia in the winter, that's the issue.
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  2. Geedorah

    Geedorah King

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    Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941.

    :smackusure:

    You skipped over what Andrew Wright wrote.
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  3. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    I did.

    And it doesn't matter when they invaded, if they stayed during winter they lost.

    And it doesn't matter who, "they," are. All throughout history the, "they," have lost every time they did that.
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  4. Geedorah

    Geedorah King

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    Once the Ukraine had been secured, Hitler finally relented and continued the advance to Moscow on October the 2nd. Between the 2nd and the 30th of October, when the advance had to be halted, the Germans took more than 600,000 Russian prisoners. Although the German army had scored another significant victory, they had still not reached Moscow. A final, last ditch offensive, "Operation Typhoon," began on November 25th and by the time it finally wore out, the Germans were within 20 miles of Moscow, or 2 days march according to many of the commanders. In fact, Fedor von Bock, the Commander of Army Group Center, could see the Spires of the Kremlin through his binoculars.

    But it was too late. On December the 5th, 1941, the Soviets, reinforced with fresh forces from Siberia and commanded by the able General Zhukov launched a massive counteroffensive. While the German army did not disintegrate like Napoleon's "Grande Armée" before it, it took horrific losses and had to retreat a significant distance from the steps of Moscow. Never again did the Germans threaten Moscow, and it is likely that from there on the war was lost.
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  5. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    So he marched on Moscow in the winter and lost.

    I feel like the Starks should be the lords of Russia.
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  6. Geedorah

    Geedorah King

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    He marched on Moscow in the summer.
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  7. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    Russian winter starts November 1st.

    To quote your own statement:

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  8. Geedorah

    Geedorah King

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    Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941.

    A final, last ditch offensive,

    You dont see it do you?
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  9. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    I don't see it?

    I don't give a fuck when their initial invasion started they were idiots to continue it and occupy parts of Russia during the winter when they didn't even have control of the capital yet.
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  10. Gen The God

    Gen The God The Life or Death Poet

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    Got to agree with J Keeper here. June 22nd was a delayed start date for the invasion, a decision that ultimately proved costly in terms of how much it screwed up their timetable for seizing Moscow by early to mid October.

    Yea they began the invasion in late June, but they weren't close enough to actually "march" on Moscow until AFTER their last ditch attempt ended on Nov 25th. Germany didn't have the manpower or proper winter equipment to occupy Russia unless they created a fortified front before winter, which they didn't (German troops were worn out and overextended by the time they got close to Moscow).
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  11. Geedorah

    Geedorah King

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    It was Hitler's decision to switch the "Axis of Advance" to the Ukraine during the middle of the campaign that ultimately saved Moscow. Considering how close the Germans came to taking it in October and November, it is more than likely they could have taken Moscow in September if they would have advanced on it instead of Kiev.
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  12. x calibur

    x calibur

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    ^sounds like a stretch tbh, especially since the start of Barbarossa was delayed.

    even if they had laid siege to Moscow, winter would've set in, the ruthless and talented General Zhukov would've arrived with reinforcements, and the Nazis still would've been over-extended and exhausted deep within enemy territory. it would've led to a similar result.
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  13. Gen The God

    Gen The God The Life or Death Poet

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    ^^^Agreed

    The only reason I disagree with this is because Germany's logistical system was not able to handle the advance as quickly as it played out since most of the army (believe it or not) was not mechanized, let alone if Hitler had allowed them to advance faster by going straight for Moscow instead of stopping to clean up around Kiev. A shitty infrastructure and a need to convert from the wider Russian gauge of railroad track down to the standard German gauge made would've slowed down the advance regardless.

    So they truly should have began the invasion on May 15th like they originally planned to give themselves more room for error. A huge part of this was arrogance in believing they could still "get their shit off" even though they were becoming pressed for time once June rolled around.
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  14. Acoustic101

    Acoustic101 New Member

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    Invading Russia is a hit or miss. 2 of the worlds greatest generals have "missed".
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  15. Geedorah

    Geedorah King

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    Have to watch this later.
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