Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Geedorah, Oct 17, 2011.
This thread is a sympathizers thread. play along.
Did this retard just compare genocide to lynching?
I fucking knew it.. 6 million deaths and all Jewish? bullshit ! fucking jews. i never believed the hollocaust existed i just didnt want to because of my hatred towards jews..
The only way we'll ever know for certain is if we try it again. Lol, I kid.
This thread is not about the U.S genocides. It's about the German one.
You should make another thread about the U.S Genocides.
3 000 000 * 2hr =
6 000 000 hours
6 000 000 / 200 ovens =
30 000 hours
30 000 / 24hrs =
so in a little over 3 years, if the nazis had 200 ovens burning continuously they could have incinerated 3 million bodies
but this formula is very basic and doesn't even include the logistics of such an operation
the transport of corpses to incinerators, the labour involved, possible down time, heaps of other variables all whilst fighting a war on many fronts
i doubt it
and 2hrs per body is conservative
even though they prolly weren't concerned with incinerating to the standard of modern cremating practices, i doubt the ovens were as advanced as todays
this also assumes that as soon as one body was incinerated another was immediately in after it, 24/7 for nearly 3.5 years
no way the operation could have ran as smooth as that
no variables for maintenance, malfunction, user error, logistics, etc
I agree it's plausible but when you calculate other variables it's very unlikely. Not too mention that ovens cannot run 24/7 anyways, they would literally fall apart.
That's not to say that people didn't die in the camps or that they did not incinerate the bodies, but I think the numbers have been exaggerated.
yeh that's what i think
possible but highly improbable that the nazis incinerated anywhere near 3 million corpses
a life is a life
no matter how it's taken, to an extent, no one loss is greater than another
i won't say worse atrocities have been committed, but i won't say the atrocities committed during ww2 were the worst either
btw nas >
of course there'd be variables. but the fact remains that the basic figures are well within the realm of reason.
they used coke-fired furnaces built with bricks. the topf & sons ovens were durable enough to handle continuous use.
I don't see how 2 hours is conservative. in previous posts, I went over how the process wouldn't be as refined and time-consuming as a proper cremation. and even if the ovens weren't as advanced as today's, they were still more then capable of generating enough heat to continually burn bodies efficiently. 1940's Germany was technologically advanced for its time. 1 hour per body is a sensible length of time, which would cut your numbers in half. I've seen sources say that an oven in the late 1800's could burn a body within 1 hour, and that another body could be added to a Topf furnace in the latter part of the burning phase. Furnaces could be kept running mostly continuously - in fact this would help the process by keeping the temperature steady and using less fuel.
the ovens could run continuously for the most part. even with maintenance and downtime, the general stats are not unbelievable on a logistic level.
i agree shit's definitely within reason
but i'd disagree about the time, granted germany was technologically advanced, but it's still 1940 and i can't see it getting done in an hour, despite the points you made earlier regarding the differences between this and a proper cremation
then again you say you've seen sources stating 1 hour was sufficient as early as the 1800's so you could be right
but even at 2 hrs per body it's still possible, i just don't think anywhere near 3 million would have been incinerated
and i can't see even one of the ovens lasting continuously for 3.5 years, let alone the 200 required in the example given
but even if they were on continuously, the labor required to ensure bodies were perpetually burning would have to be considered a waste during war time
i'm more inclined to think it's a program they established early on maybe and soon abandoned
what end were they tryna achieve by incinerating 3 million bodies anyway?
i don't think they gave a fuck about humanitarian law or crimes of war or how the rest of the world thought of them at the time so i don't think the effort required would have been spent
If anyone has studied war they can say one thing:
Casualties in war, especially non-combatant casualties, are probably the hardest thing in the world to calculate.
From the stories I was told from relatives who lived in Poland, entire neighborhoods disappeared. Communities, families, relatives, completely gone.
About 10 million were killed. Not just Jews, and not just in camps. Death squads, pograms, and ghettos also held great contribution in these numbers.
Stalin killed about 43 million. Mainly Russians.
Why is it so hard to believe that Hitler and the Third Reich killed 10 million across the entirety of their reign, when they had quite possible the most efficient and effective murder machine every created, yet Stalin, who, even by conservative estimates, was able to kill at the very least double that number in a single country, and people seem to think that believable.
Anti-Jewish ideology is easily disguised by smoke and mirrors, as is anti-Afro ideology, and you fools are the ones blowing the smoke.
j, we're not disputing how many died
i'm saying i don't think 3 million jewish corpses were incinerated in ovens
and part of what you're saying contributes to another point others have made
many of the victims who lost their lives during ww2, lost them to various causes
not just death camps
Of course they did.
Why is that even an argument?
one hour is sufficient, especially given the points I made earlier, and the fact that the ovens would already be hot.
as far as why they incinerated bodies, it wasn't to be decent. rather, there are definite logistical problems when enough dead bodies pile up. mass graves were used, but it becomes too difficult to bury them all. disease is an issue. and there's the fact that the Nazis were intentionally secretive about the Holocaust. They destroyed buildings and records when the Red Army approached. Most concentration camps were in rural areas. they shaved the victims heads partly because burning hair has an unmistakable odor. the concentration camps were under the guise of labor camps - Arbeit Macht Frei, "Work sets you free" was above the gate at Auschwitz.
speaking of which, the concentration camps were not purely for extermination. there were death camps like Treblinka, but Auschwitz was for both extermination and labor. others such as Mauthausen were focused on slave labor. Slave labor was used for troop supplies, ammo, airplane parts, and other materiel, as well as the v2 rocket program.
so, the Holocaust did have some practical purposes for the German war effort. also, they were stealing everything of value from the Jews, even their gold teeth - see: Nazi Gold. With that said, they were expending resources to wage their Holocaust. The leadership was dedicated to their "Final Solution to the Jewish Question". They made an effort in transporting them with trains and operating the camps even with the war effort. Hitler was dedicated to his vision of a new world order without Jews and plenty of lebensraum. that, along with nazi ideology and anti-semitism, provided enough motivation.
the gas chambers and incinerators were the main method. an early method they tried out was the "gas van", where they killed people locked in vans with carbon monoxide. But that was not efficient enough for their purposes. with gas chambers and nearby crematoria, they could carry out an industrialized genocide.
Seriously this is a good thread, we should continue it and try to analyze everything mathematically.
X-caliber has made some good points, I have, Miscreant has, anyone else want to join in with an open-mind?
Any issue with WW2 and especially the holocaust? post here!
If you can - post your #'s!
How much coal would be needed for that much bodies burned?
oh but you have to have sympathy to keep the lies going. otherwise it's a useless argument.
Found the quote yet?
Separate names with a comma.