Here's why I didn't convert to Islam.

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Alias3000, Feb 7, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Alias3000

    Alias3000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,181
    Their Holy book, the Quran, promotes and teaches them the art of lying.

    Read up and sound off. Especially you Muslim cats.

    -------

    Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

    There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.



    The Qur'an:
    Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

    Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

    Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

    Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

    Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

    Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

    Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

    Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.



    From the Hadith:



    Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).



    Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.



    Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."



    Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."



    Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.



    From Islamic Law:



    Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...




    TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and Lying
    • Hot Thread Hot Thread x 1
    test
  2. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    31,420
    I always found Sharia law interesting, however never took the time to go in depth. Might do that one of these days.
    test
  3. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,096
    There is no truth in Islam, none at all. It's just a man made religion. Cool thread.
    test
  4. Alias3000

    Alias3000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,181
    yeah, check it out. You'll be shocked as shit about Sharia Law.

    Egypt and Libya is going thru it now that Obama just sacked their countries.
    test
  5. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    5,134
    What I find interesting in the Quaran is how much more cult like it is than it's Christian cousin and it's Jewish father. I've never seen a religion be more "Hey you're not Muslim, YOU'RE FUCKED AND WE HATE YOU" than Islam. The book is just full of *be Muslim or suffer in every way imaginable*. It's practically a manifesto for intolerance.

    Certainly explains the way Nu acts on here.
    test
  6. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,469
    Try actually reading the Qur'an and the Tafsirs. I don't know about all this stuff you're posting, but you're obviously getting it from anti-Islamic sources without reading the verses they're pointing to.

    For one example, the second bit where it says the verse tells Muslims not to take those outside of the faith is friends, it's not actually saying don't befriend non-Muslims. In the very quote it states "... rather than the believers" and if you go by the Tafsir al-Mizan (which is a tafsir for Shi'a muslims), it reads:

    "In this verse, taking the unbelievers for friends means estab*lishing a psychological rapport with them. Such a friendship would taint the believer's vision, and would adversely affect his thoughts and character, encouraging him to follow his unbeliever friends in his life and manners. The clause, "rather than the believers", points to this fact. It refers to a stage when the believer prefers the unbelievers rather than the believers as the object of his love and as the model for his life; the more he moves nearer to his unbeliever friends, the more he distances himself from the believers.

    Many verses strictly forbid the believers to take the unbelievers, and the Jews and the Christians for friends; but in every instance, there are clauses which delineate which type of friendship is forbidden. For example, this verse contains the above-mentioned clause, "rather than the believers"; the verse: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends (5:51), goes on to say: they are friends of each other; and the prohibition: O you who believe! do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends... (60:1), is further on explained by the words: Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of your religion and have not driven you forth from your homes... (60:8)."

    I have not looked any further yet, but this at least establishes a discrepancy between one of the things you posted and one specific type of Muslim.

    Actually do the work beyond reading what other people say about it.
    test
  7. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,469
    16:106 seems to have more to do with unbelief than lies that Muslims tell.

    LOL @ this bullshit.
    test
  8. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,469
    16:105

    It is those who believe not in the Signs of Allah, that forge falsehood: it is they who lie!

    106


    Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

    107


    This because they love the life of this world better than the Hereafter: and Allah will not guide those who reject Faith.


    108


    Those are they whose hearts, ears, and eyes Allah has sealed up, and they take no heed.


    ----------------

    Doesn't sound much different than the Bible, where God hardened Pharaoh's heart among other things.
    test
  9. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,469
    Seems like any marriage, to be honest. Spouses always lie to each other for the greater good.
    test
  10. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    5,134
    ITT: Islam is MORE bullshit than Christianity [spoiler]bothbullshit[/spoiler]

    lol @ Islam apologetics. You just sound ridiculous nigga.
    test
  11. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,469
    It's not apologetics, it's just putting a nicca in his place.
    test
  12. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    5,134
    Really? You are? Reads out like more like counter interpretations. his paints Islam in a bad light, and you're attempting to reverse that by simply interpreting the scripture differently and making barely passable excuses for scripture that's peeeerty clear.

    *text book apologetics*
    test
  13. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,469
    There's no fucking way to interpret 16:106 as establishing circumstances that can compel a muslim to lie. There's just not.

    Dude's just copy-pasting from anti-Islamic sources, claiming that is why he didn't convert to Islam, without having even checked anything else.

    I'm just posting source material. I'm not trying to reverse anything, just attempting to give a more correct description. If that's apologetics, then fine. I have no reason to give a shit if it is.
    test
  14. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,674
    lol @ you fuckheads.

    thank you memento, for being sensible about shit.

    as for coup and alias, you guys really need to stop being dickheads.

    :numaan:
    test
  15. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,096
    not trying to be mean..but what I said is what I strongly believe. Nothing against you or memento...
    test
  16. Jay Bee

    Jay Bee Boricua

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,596
    the way memento describes it is a lot less harsh...but it still means the same to me.

    its kind of like instead of "i hate all ******s because they are violent and stupid" you replaced it with "stay closer to whites because your caucasian culture and mannerisms may be affected by becoming too familiar with african american customs"

    "sounds like the bible" thats not a good thing

    lying in a marriage for the good of the marriage...first good idea ive heard on this page lol
    test
  17. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2000
    Messages:
    24,097
    Christianity Islam Judaism

    Are all the same ideologies just different cultural establishments.

    basically one shouldn't become best friends with a crack head if he has a crack addiction( and he's trying to stay clean) that's not intolerant that is just true.

    but the lord encourages us to love those and encourage theme and help them

    not to judge as god is no respector of person's we are to be like-wise

    it's religion that perverts this very truth!
    test
  18. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    Hey nu, Why does the quran see manipulation as a good attribute for God to have?

    But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54; cf. 8:30
    test
  19. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    u know thats not a biblical statement. No where in the bible does it say not to judge. Essebtially the topic here is doctrine. If its not biblical it is wrong. The jufge not lest ye be judged is in context to judging other sin, while u urself are in sin. Not as to weigh beliefs against the bible and against the truth. And im sorry but if islam is not preaching the only way to the father is thru christ than its wrong and we are called to spread the gospel. And thats not judging, thats following christ. We are called to correct, and rebuke when someones teaching something unbiblical. Same goes for unbiblical spiritualities. In fact discernment, which i know u have IS a type of judgement. Its discerning of spirits, judging the spirits.
    test
  20. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,096
    pabyback..you have arrived.
    test
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)