"HATTON wants FLOYD? Sign the contract!" - Team Mayweather

Discussion in 'Sports Central' started by ~OMagic~, Jun 25, 2007.

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  1. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    I just finished watching Baldomir/Judah again and here's my assessment:

    Judah's problem is that he's a speed demon suffering from the curse many others of his kind have.

    They can get away with massive mistakes because of their lightning speed. But put them in with a really good fighter who knows what to do with a reflexive fighter like Zab, and he'll get nailed over and over. This was the case with Baldomir, who was a veteran of many fights.

    One of the many mistakes Zab made during the fight is that after slipping a shot nicely, he steps out and drops his hands habitually. Most guys, after they miss, need to regroup for their next try, but a good, good fighter can follow up immediately or even set it up with a few feints to get the opponent into a hands down position. Baldomir's feints allowed him to land some solid shots that stunned Zab.

    Zab never adjusted over the course of the fight and he lost fair and square (though I'll admit that it was close). I've spoken to trainers in Brooklyn who have seen Zab fight in the amateurs and they've basically said the same thing I've been saying. Zab relies so much on his talent that he hardly prepares for most of his fights. But throughout his career, he's knocked out many boxers using this mentality so he never "got it". Now it's just too late.

    But this discussion really isn't getting anywhere. I know I'm right because I'm smarter than you and you know you're right because I'm an idiot. Kind of like Israel and Palestine. [dummy]
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  2. R3flex

    R3flex Smackin Ya Manses

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    I'll give Baldy (and Chavez for that matter) credit for having strength, Chavez more than Baldy, heart and even a great chin. But honestly, when I train some of the younger guys in the gym, these guys dont even get brought up when "fundamentals" are in play. Maybe it's that my definition differs from yours, but that's cool.

    In my world, Baldy, Chavez, and the like are the last people I would ever list when talking about the science of boxing (my definition of fundamentals is the grasp of the sweet science) BUT they did make noise in the sport and Chavez is one of the greatest to ever do it. So even if I don't give them credit for being skilled in all areas, I certainly have to admit they did SOMETHING right.
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  3. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    I'll say that Mayweather possesses excellent fundamentals, but is technically flawed in some aspects of his defense. Once he starts slowing down, it's only a matter of time before someone catches him with something lethal. You take guys like Charles, Robinson, Moore, Hopkins. Their technical skills and fundamentals allowed them to succeed in boxing though their physical skills had well passed them.

    And as long as you're not teaching your kids to fight like Mayweather or Jones Jr., I've got no complaints! :thumb:
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  4. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    No, I actually like Baldomir because he is a hardworker that keeps going. He works hard and he earned what he got. Thats why he got the shot at Floyd and not Margarito.


    I give Baldomir his proper credit, but you are trying to make him out as more than what he was.


    You know he got lucky, if he didnt run into "that" Judah we would not know about him.
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  5. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    Mayweather and Jones Jr are COMPLETELY different.
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  6. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    Sounds like another broken record... how exactly did he get lucky? Because he faced an unprepared Judah? What about all those boxers who also faced an unprepared Judah and ended up getting their teeth knocked in? There's more to Baldomir than heart and a set of whiskers, and anyone who doesn't see probably does not know the art of fighting very well.

    I already posted that Baldomir used guile and technical brilliance to take advantage of Zab's various mistakes in slipping punches and used feints to set up combinations. And all you're responding with is that he got "lucky". [funny]
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  7. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    They're the same in that both are not in touch with the real world.

    Ok, seriously though. No one should be teaching their kids to fight like either of them. Training a fighter to fight like Jones is career suicide, but lately it's all been about Mayweather's "half-guard/shoulder roll".

    One good right hand feint that gets the roll of the shoulder going and then the left hook will get any inexperienced boxer knocked down.
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  8. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    You are trying to put on the biggest front in the world, you do not know as much about boxing as you think you do.


    Baldomir got lucky that Judah was not prepared, didnt train hard, partied hard, ran around town in the week before the fight, underestimated him, etc.

    Judah has never done that to his past opponents. You are talking about a Zab Judah who when in the ring lost focus. I am talking about a Zab Judah who completely did not prepare.


    Zab Judah NEVER prepared himself for anybody the way he prepared himself for Baldomir.


    Baldomir should thank Zab for making him rich.
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  9. MyKe SeaN

    MyKe SeaN Paula Deen is my hero.

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    ^^I agree. Baldy did beat up a smaller, washed up Gatti though.
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  10. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    Floyd Mayweather is in touh with the world, Roy Jones wasn't. You are just upset that Floyd isnt always politically correct. He says the thing every boxer says behind closed doors because he doesnt care if people hate him for it.

    They are COMPLETELY different. The most similar they are is perhaps that they both have unreal reflexes. That doesnt mean Floyd abuses them like Roy did. Roy only defense was his reflexes.


    Floyd has a completely different defensive game, if an opponent is able to crack through that then Floyd uses his reflexes.


    Training people to be like Roy Jones isnt career suicide. Training them to fight the same defense he fought is career suicide though.


    And WOW @ "training to fight like Floyd is career suicide"


    Floyd does NOTHING stupid in the ring and he makes few mistakes.


    Oscar and Freddie Roach know more about boxing than you do, and they agree with me on that.
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  11. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    LOL. Right. I'm sure that the Baldomir fight was the first time in Zab's career that he came unprepared. Get real. Talk to anyone who was or is associated with Zab and they'll tell you the same thing. Zab has always had the wrong people around him and it's not that common for him to come to the ring with a less than stellar training camp for any fight.
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  12. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    Stop trying to overlook what I said. It goes BEYOND training camp in the gym.


    When Zab is in that gym he goes hard, ask his good friend Sweat Pea. But with Baldomir it went far beyond just the gym. And even with that, Zab only BARELY lost. Yet Baldomir is so fundamentally sound and do so and so, fuck outa here. Baldomir got lucky and he knows it. I doubt he will ever be willing to fight Zab again.
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  13. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    Ok. You train your fighters to fight like Roy Jones, with your hands down and throwing triple left hooks. Let's see how long they last in boxing. Maybe you can help incorporate some of Floyd's leaning back with a punch into some of the fighter's defense. That way, all the opponent needs to do is complete a double step and throw another punch and your kid will be gone.

    Mayweather just doesn't "get it". For all his great talent, he doesn't fight like a great.

    Greatness is bestowed upon fighters of heroic proportions. Guys who take chances or guys who go for the kill. Not guys who jump halfway across the ring when Carlos Baldomir throws one of his pulverizing right hands.
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  14. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    Yeah thats true, but according to dun dun dun that victory over Gatti means nothng because 147 wasnt Gatti's best weight. Baldomir should have moved down to 140 to fight him. lol
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  15. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    Taking my quotes way out of context and then making another foolish assumption. Sounds so mature of you. [dummy]
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  16. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    (1) I never said I would train anybody to fight like Roy. Not to mention Roy had one of the best offensive repatoirs people can remember.

    (2) Floyd is the best defensive fighter of the past 25 years, so whatever it is hes doing, it must be right. LMAO @ "complete a double step, punch and ur kid is done". Wow, that sure is the formula, it's just that easy isnt it??

    (3) Stop contradicting yourself. Taking risks is the oppositte of being fundamental. Floyd isnt Arturo Gatti, so stop asking him to go take dumb risks, thats how you lose, not win.



    I swear when people run out of shit to say about Floyd they just go back to the old "Uhhh, uhhh, well he isnt the most exciting!!!!!!" Congrats nigga, I'll take my Tim Duncan and you can have your Charles Barkley.
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  17. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    Hey man, I'm just tryna please you.


    Maybe Ray Leonard shoulda fought Hagler at 147, because Ray Leonards best weight wasnt at Haglers weight.



    Not to mention your whole weight issue sounds completely retarded.



    Okay, lets say Floyd fought Ricky at 140 and lost. Then everybody would say it means nothing cuz thats not Floyds best weight.


    According to you, these guys cant fight each other because their best weights arent the same.
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  18. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    Mayweather is the best defensive fighter in the past 25 years? Ever hear of a guy named Pernell Whitaker? He would actually stand in front of you and make you miss, then counter you silly. Unlike Mayweather who jumps 3 steps backwards when someone throws a jab.

    All the great fighters in history took risks. Robinson took risks, Pep took risks, Whitaker took risks. Had Robinson hurt his right hand against Baldomir, he would've been trying to finish the job with his left. Pep and Whitaker would've stood right in front of Baldomir, rolled under his punches or side-stepped and actually countered with combinations rather than potshot and get on their bicycles.

    You have much to learn about boxing. It's not bad being a casual fan, but try to make a little bit of sense. [dummy]
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  19. dun dun dun dun

    dun dun dun dun New Member

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    That's a bit of a stretch with Leonard and Hagler. Mayweather is actually capable of making 140 and hasn't won a championship there. It would be impressive beating Hatton at 147, but even more impressive beating Hatton at 140. That's my point, but since you're getting embarrassed with these arguments, you try to twist my words into something else.
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  20. ~OMagic~

    ~OMagic~ Well-Known Member

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    No, you might like Pernell Whitaker's defensive style better than Floyds. But it is not better, you dont even have to analyze it. The proof is right in front of you.

    Pernell has 4 losses. He was hit, knocked down, knocked out, and dominated before in fights.

    Can't say the same for Mayweather. A guy who has 0 losses, traveled accross 5 weight division, is always the smaller man, doesnt get hit often, rarely gets hit flush, never been down, never been KO'd.


    There you go contradicting yourself again. Standing in front of an opponent is not fundamental. And Pernell also had to rely on his reflexes to pull off his defense.



    You tell your guys to be like Pernell?? You want your guys doing coc??


    Yet Floyd is the bad guy simply because of what he says, while Pernell can do coc and be the good guy.
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