Give a legitimate case/argument against 2pac as the GOAT

Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by Juked, Feb 18, 2010.

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  1. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    Sorry man, but the rest of the world disagrees with almost everything in this post.

    Pac didnt have classic albums? I doubt you would find many heads that wouldnt call All Eyes On Me a classic. That album was one of the defining albums of 90s Hip Hop. ditto for me against the world.

    the beats... are you kidding me? If Pac didnt have good beats, then who did? When I hear the beat to Ambitions as a Rider, I think 90s Hip Hop... as a matter of fact, EVERYONE does.
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  2. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    lyrics are only part of what makes an MC great though. since this isnt the topic, I'm only going to say this and only this. If you're THE best selling rapper alive... you deserve to be mentioned on the GOAT list.
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  3. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    I gotta disagree on this one. the thing about Andre 3000 and Outkast and why they are frequently left off Top 10 lists is that their kind of in the same situation as groups like Bone thugs.

    despite their huge amount of commercial success, they are overlooked because their style of music is unique... VERY unique,

    they have HUGE fan bases that love their music to death and they have those people that simply arent feelin the unique style...

    now I love atliens and aquemini, but other than that their music seems kind of out there to me. not that its bad... its just kind of weird.

    I think Eminem is the only artist is rap history who can have a style thats completely different (in the mainstream) from any other style, still sell an insane amount of records, AND still be frequently mentioned among the greatest of all time.
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  4. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    "not releasing anything wack" is definitely a good quality in an MC or group, but not when you're having a conversation about the greatest of all time...

    otherwise Ludacris would be mentioned in every discussion.
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  5. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    One flaw I see is his flow. a lot of the time its on point and sometimes hes cramming ten thousand syllables into one line
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  6. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    get aquemini... NOW.

    ***EDIT My bad, people already put u on. I'm replyin to shit so fast right now.
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  7. Murder Ink

    Murder Ink Jigsaw

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    ehh I get what you're saying. but it's just different strokes for different folks i guess..

    he's not that 'out there' for me at all..but I could understand why. and Eminem could def be considered..if he never released Encore imo..
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  8. Krooked*k

    Krooked*k That's Krook to you

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    as far aas standing up for a cause that the believed in. His cadence. Delivery. Connecting with the youth of his generation. The feelings he evoked through his words tone and emotion is unmatched. His concepts. His flow at times. His heart and raw aggression yet able to channel his ability to touch women. He was able to connect and relate to the grimey hood nigga made the lowest brokest down on they luck cats feel like there was still hope. He touched bitches mentally fucked up an youngsters from broken homes, teenage mothers. Look if he wasnt the goat.. He had the power to connect with every life no mmatter what background or situation. Thats great no matter how u slice it.
    Posted via Mobile Device
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  9. Murder Ink

    Murder Ink Jigsaw

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  10. vandalism

    vandalism the king

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    always thought andre was overrated
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  11. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    ^He only really got the huge props he does now around the Walk It Out era, when Andre rapping was a rarity, and he kind of had that "I'm retired... I'm so good I don't even have to rap if I don't want to" vibe going for him. He is definitely unlike any other MC and incredibly gifted (the game would feel different without him), but I really think it's unfair to put him so far above Big Boi, as neither is as good without the other as they are together, and all throughout the albums it was always a great tug of war as to who shined, but then when the double disc dropped, it was only Big Boi that gave me the music I wanted.

    Andre himself will tell you he doesn't want to be the greatest... that probably backfired. I think it's just that he combines alot of elements from MC's like Mos Def (flow, bounce), Talib Kweli (deep thought and wit), CeeLo (cadence and versatility), Common (smooth poetry)... but is always his own man, and has the charisma and presence of a real classic southern MC on the mic, even though he's never bragging.
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  12. Murder Ink

    Murder Ink Jigsaw

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    really? I always thought he shitted on Big Boi. lol
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  13. THEDONN

    THEDONN One Love

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    dead @ andre3k being the best w/o a album, smfh
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  14. D.Cipher

    D.Cipher New Member

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    see I put Andre 3000 and Mos Def in the same category. Both are ridiculously nice with the pen and can drop verses that you think are hot at first, but later you realize that you didn't even grasp the whole concept yet. Then you're like damn, that was even hotter than I thought it was.

    The thing about both of them is they're bored with rapping. The want to make Music. They've reached a level where the idea of coming out with an album of soley rapping bores them. So they go far left with their music. 3000 does a better job of doing this though than Mos Def IMO.
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  15. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    I think the only one's that do a great job of it are CeeLo with his vocal work and collabs, and RZA with his film work, cross genre production and instrumental albums.

    Lauryn Hill's always been that... but since she started as that, she gets no love for it. Come to think of it Wyclef was too, and still is a master of world music that becomes hip-hop through practical application.

    I love Mos Def though... one of my all time personal favorites, but I know he get dissed alot for The New Danger and True Magic, even though both had their bright spots and True Magic was actually pretty solid and gritty.
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  16. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    I know how you feel about Pac, dream... but yeah, I can find a lot of people who agree with me, too.

    And "Ambitions of a Ridah" is a dope beat... I didn't say he didn't have any... just that usually, I can find a good bit on all of his albums that just don't quite cut it to me.

    I feel the same way about "Me Against the World"... I actually think AEOM is better, but MATW has more classic songs.

    Still, I would give AEOM a 4... not a 5... just a 4.

    MATW is probably more like a 3.5

    7 Day Theory is a 4, maybe 4.5... that's the only one I'd call "classic" if I was force to concede.

    Strictly 4 My Niggas is a 3.5.

    2Pacalypse Now (his most lyrical and poetic) is a 3.


    Tupac has always hit or missed to me... he has never really come together for that perfect mix on one particular album... that's my opinion... and I think if you listen critically and remove all of the hype, pomp and circumstance from his death, fame and stature, then maybe... just maybe, you'll see where I'm coming from.
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  17. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Are you talking about Andre? And are you talking about "Roses?"

    That was funny and a one-time instance, for dramatic effect... I thought it was pretty good that he used that.
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  18. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Ha ha... I think it is an important component of GOAT discussions, because it relates to consistency of greatness... like how the Yankees are the greatest dynasty in all of sports.

    And Luda???

    See, we just differ on this... he has come wack more often than not... he kills features, yes... but he's normally quite average on his own songs... none of his albums are substantial or great... he's mostly fluff and effect, the way he over-enunciates ALL the time... he's very, very simple lyrically, too.
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  19. TWAMP$iN

    TWAMP$iN Guest



    word.
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  20. THEDONN

    THEDONN One Love

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    fuck a beat, yall need to hear what pac is talkin about on them first 2 albums, i was kinda blind to the facts cuz of the beats jus like yall sayin, but 2paclaypse now and strictly 4 my niggaz got sum hidden jewels in them i had to find...str8 up...
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