Give a legitimate case/argument against 2pac as the GOAT

Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by Juked, Feb 18, 2010.

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  1. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    For your last question, about the age of the earth... I don't believe that, and I also don't necessarily believe science is right on the money with their estimations either... one sounds more qualified, and as we learned in school, geological study makes sense (hence the word geo"logical"), but I still wouldn't doubt that in a thousand years whatever we believe now will seem as preposterous as believing the world is flat is now.

    ...it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for me to properly explain or even summarize what it is that I've observed as a pattern in my life that makes me believe in a higher power and try to understand or communicate with it. I would be classed as the crazy man before I'd be classed as a preacher, and that's a given. "if you walked in my shoes then you would be just like me", and as much as I don't know what the color red looks like to you, the same goes for your understanding of my perception. What I see looks, feels, tastes, smells, and sounds real and logical on so many levels personally that I can't deny what I know, anymore than you could deny what affirms your contrary beliefs.

    Everything is a belief IMO... absolutely everything. To simply accept and acknowledge your own existence, despite the scientific understanding of what comprises matter, is what keeps us sentient and tied together into physical form at a molecular level. The reason we can't walk through walls, I feel, is the same reason we can exist at all, and touch solid objects - skewed perception, ego, and delusion that anything we perceive with our eyes is reality.

    My own life, and I won't get too personal, has been trials and tribulations from birth... same for almost all my family. I write about it in music and poetry, I tell stories to friends and open ears, and that's part of my heritage. I never ask for material wealth or selfish gain, but only for protection, safety and whatever it is that I am supposed to receive, as if God is there and is listening. It would be arrogant of me to assume what's best for me or others, so I try to stay humble and keep my prayers and thoughts open ended and rhetorical, and let my free will take on a ragdoll state, bouncing in the tumultuous current of life like a raft lost at sea.

    All I can say, is that when I ask for my resolve to be strengthened, for my path to be laid before me, for my adversaries and those that wish to harm me to struggle in vain and attack to no avail... it happens, and my resolve is both my own, that of my heritage and my ancestry, and what I feel to be something else holding me in it's graces and acting as my life preserver for so long as I acknowledge it's existence and try to coalesce with it's subtle direction - for me to be exactly when, where, how, and why I was at any point where things were life and death for me, and to come out without a scratch and still stand is miraculous to me and the forethought and planning that must go into multitasking so many outcomes for so much sentient and non sentient life in so many multiverses in so many timelines to provide even single moments of reprise and joy to a person for but a fleeting moment... is so astounding to me, so far beyond mine or anybody else's comprehension and unless it can be proven that circumstance and coincidence have scientific explanations down from the alpha to the omega for any, every, and all instances that have ever existed and will exist, then I have no choice but to be thankful for the fact I'm allowed to even exist and still live amidst this chaotic struggle of creation and destruction that is the universe, let alone the careful balance of life and death that is survival of the fittest and human civilization.

    When I'm not asking... I am lost, completely open and vulnerable and have almost no recourse or even consolation in times of need. Fear of mortality creates many things, from spiritual beliefs, to houses, to methods of reason and rationale.

    I could testify in ways that would marvel a believer, but would only sound crazy to another - and incite a myriad of reactions in the gray area, depending on how much a person can relate to or empathize with my experiences, as you said about writing itself - relevance is subjective in all things. I'm not trying to dissuade you from your thoughts, only justify my own because it came up. That topics obviously more relevant to both of us than 2Pac's legacy.

    Long post, sorry.

    [youtube]71w2zdncfj8[/youtube] I'm not a Christian rapper though, or preaching... just opening up.
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  2. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    It's amazing... that nearly 15 years after his death, a 2Pac thread still can garner 10 or more pages on a message board.


    I guess it's better to be loved or hated, than completely ignored.
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  3. Anonmuz

    Anonmuz Decepticons = Truth

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    lol this book is for idiots.
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  4. SpAnKy

    SpAnKy 플레이보이

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    ^^^^
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  5. SpAnKy

    SpAnKy 플레이보이

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    I had holiday yesterday.

    From this point on you're going on ignore, you've proven you're just as ignorant(if not more) than Thadonn.

    Enjoy your failed existence.
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  6. SpAnKy

    SpAnKy 플레이보이

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    So, what religion are you? I don't mind you justifying your thoughts, that's the best way to get them across.
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  7. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    You say you respect Jay-z's intelligence? You say Jay-Z is smart? And you think the "smart" thing to do if you grew up poor and live in a drug-infested neighborhood is sell drugs?

    Yea, I'd say you listen to too much gangsta rap. If not, you've seen too many gangsta movies.

    You're just a dumb white boy. The proof is that the system works for you and you still got put in jail by the cops. You need school, for real.

    Bottom line: Pac was shot on two occasions that we know of, got set up and spent significant time in jail for some bullshit, and died a violent death.

    Meanwhile, no one's shooting at you. Plus you did time because you were stupid enough to do business with a snitch. Jail scared you so now you're in school tryna "do the right thing" .......no, don't speak on Pac being fake, you fake.
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  8. .:Pain:.

    .:Pain:. Futurely J. Keeper

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    Care to show me where I said that? You can't because I didn't.

    Probably just like the one your girl sucked off ;).

    Reagen got shot. Is he gangster? Martha Stewart spent a long time in jail on some BS, is she gangster? JFK died a violent death, was he a gangster?

    LMAO. Wow, you really know nothing.

    The worst part is, you think you know everything.

    Please, in all seriousness, and I mean be REAL for one second of your internet life, and answer this HONESTLY.

    Do you currently have any mental illnesses or disabilities?
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  9. Mel Man

    Mel Man Wat ya'll bout to witness

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    Yo Spanky maybe if you weren't so spiritually dead you would respect opinions different from your own instead of ridin the high horse all day.

    lmao @ all these crackaz like Bill Mayer and Richard Dawkins tryna disprove God, Blind leadin the blind. Actually I believe all these mawfuckin "evolution" front men like Darwin and em actually know there is a higher power. They just carryin the devil's plan to trick the deaf, dumb, and blind.

    Anywaay, Pac is the goat fo sure.

    "I took a minus and now the hard times are behind us, turned into a plus now they stuck livin blinded"

    we miss you God, hip hop aint been the same..
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  10. SpAnKy

    SpAnKy 플레이보이

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    I don't really understand how race has anything to do with belief.

    To use a funny quote, Old Dogg Says "Black people have too much damn religion anyway."

    Either way, I'm not on a high horse. Spiritually dead? What does that even mean? You mean something you can't see, touch, speak with, but I'm just supposed to believe it's around. By this logic, I should believe in Santa Clause, The Easter Bunny, and other fictional characters.

    I do respect other's opinions, I'm having a civil discussion with Ninjamic.
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  11. SpawnYours

    SpawnYours Gram •••••••

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    I feel bad for you even more now that you listen to Aesop Rock and your not white ... that always kills me too. You know you listened to that shit in college and many other goof troops kickin that abstract garbage.

    Fat Boy or not I'm getting ass on a reg, while you be out in Korea fucking women that look like lil boys.
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  12. AlexKKKeller

    AlexKKKeller New Member

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    lmao @ this becoming a discussion about the Earth and shit.
    Wtf.
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  13. Anonmuz

    Anonmuz Decepticons = Truth

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    Spanks all defensive and serious... WTF @ ignoring like I'm calling this loser.
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  14. THEDONN

    THEDONN One Love

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    ^look in the mirror, u are a miracle

    u da fag
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  15. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    @ spanky... I don't go anywhere to worship, unless you count taking scenery in... and I don't worship together with other people. I never went to church really at all.

    I know that literally, a religion is merely a disciplined routine tied to spirituality and belief, so I don't know what you'd call me even though it's just me and what I know. I don't consider myself agnostic though, because I talk to alot of agnostics and have entirely different views and beliefs. It's not that I'm unsure... I'm sure of it, but approach my certainty and faith with logic and reason as much as I can, and try to rationalize that the irrationality of spirituality is the only way it can be rational.

    I definitely don't deny science, or think any of that creationist shit belongs in public school... I just don't feel that any methods from the mind of man will ever be anything less than imperfect, and has to be challenged just like faith. One of the things Dawkins champions is that science questions itself by practice, but I don't feel that science itself is ever questioned with it's own methods or any outside methods for it become more than an essentially controlled variable to test other variables with.

    Maybe I'm a one man cult lol
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  16. TWAMP$iN

    TWAMP$iN proper weaponry

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    damn... nigga got snuffed, lol
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  17. SpAnKy

    SpAnKy 플레이보이

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    See, I could understand this if Science never proved anything. As it stands, Science is the answer for many things we couldn't answer before. When it comes to faith, what has it really answered or proven? When does faith challenge itself? That's the one thing that I don't understand. Faith is never really tested because there's nothing to test. Just because we cannot physically test something and see results from it is a good enough reason for me to not buy into anything beyond Science.

    The reason Science doesn't have to question their methods is because these same methods have been proven. It would be one thing if Science had not cured, or discovered anything over the years, but it has.
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  18. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    Merit and intention should never replace the need for evidence... otherwise distributing untested vaccines in hopes that they help would be ok.

    Faith tests itself all the time, or it is not true faith... if it's never tested, then it's never proven. It's all talk and no walk.

    You know what the concept of nothingness is... it cannot be sensed in anyway. It is neither all white, nor all black. All clear is incomprehensible, and technically, would be something, rather than nothing. Things that are beyond sensory comprehension are known by all of us, accepted by some, and not by others. That is faith, belief without question... or acting on despite not truly knowing, resting on whatever means of understanding and adapting that you have, and having faith that you'll still be ok otherwise, and never fall victim to your own fear and weakness.

    One thing I really dislike, like the generalization of spirituality or beliefs as organized religion, is the term "science" as an all encompassing order; and I'm guilty of it too. It's a tool, used by mankind to achieve greater ends for themselves... science is powerless without man, and even if the laws of physics act on their own, without man to perceive them they are misunderstood, meaningless, unrecorded to the point of non-existence and classed as life rather than scientific reasoning. It's individuals and teams of people that do all this work of noble intent, not science itself.

    I feel that it's as dangerous to make "science" a religion, as it is to blindly follow another man's written words without question.

    I don't object to science, it's part of my life... I'm not really attacking science. I never like coming off like that... good is good, bad is bad, but that's all subjective really, and relativity changes in time.

    I know stupid religious orders and actual knowledge have clashed since the dawn of civilization, but I remember when I was a kid, science was a school subject and was how stuff worked/how to do stuff, not a way of life.
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  19. vandalism

    vandalism the king

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    niggas talk too much
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  20. SpAnKy

    SpAnKy 플레이보이

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    But that's what I'm getting at(in reference to science as a religion). I'm not worshiping science, nor am I worshiping any scientists. All I'm doing is being rational and taking what I can see and understand, compared to what I have never seen and have never seen any documented evidence for. I don't live my life the way a scientist lives his or her life, I live my life the way that I see fit. If I question something morally, I do not need to look to a higher power, or even a scientist to know what is right and wrong. That is what's great about human beings, there is an inherent ability for us to distinguish between the two.

    You know what else is powerless without man? Religion! Look at how many religious frauds there are out there peddling bogus claims just to rake large amounts of money in. You're correct about it being teams of people to do noble work, but what if they didn't care about finding out answers and just attributed things to a deity? What if Jonas Salk just chalked up Polio to something created by a god and if he wanted it undone, then the god would do it himself?

    Like I've said before, I don't look to science to guide me with moral decisions, but when it comes down to it, science has contributed more documented evidence to cures and vaccinations than the 'great book'.

    The Bible, a book written by men years and years ago that never changes has holes all throughout. If this book managed to change itself, fix its errors, then maybe so many people wouldn't tear it down.

    Do I think all religion is bad? No, some religions help raise proper members of society and instills values in children that needs to be instilled. Do I think I could do the very same without the introduction of a deity to a child? Yes.
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