From Adam to Atom

Discussion in 'Poetry Realm' started by Xero Satsujin, Mar 18, 2004.

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  1. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    It was once said that there are internet readers/writers and down to the core readers/writers right here in the Realm. Personally I am not here to impress either one, only send a positive message, as to whether someone overlooks it, or takes it wrong is not my fault. Perception is in the mind of the reader.

    As far as the CRAFT of poetry, I'm already established in the literary world so I've heard what you've said already including the cognitive loop statement. It happens to everyone, especially when caught in turmoil.

    Anyhow, to answer your question, "For I know this all to well." TO is sort of a way point in some instances, or a point of going. If I know something all to well, that means I know it on my way to well. A slight change in words, adding thanks in there, and I could have said that I know it all thanks to well. thought about that I believe when I wrote this a long while back...
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  2. MarQuise*

    MarQuise* Can You Hear Me*

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    Your words grabbed me, from the very first line to the last, Lv'd this. The opener was jus KraZy for me!
    Much Lv
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  3. ~Eloquent

    ~Eloquent Narcissistic....

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    another great piece what im beginning to expect from you...
    "I have walked the Plains of Time all alone. An heir to a long forgotten throne. Who is there that would believe what I have seen So I search for myself a wife, a center in my life, a Queen. Someone to pull me away from all of the insanity and life`s crisis. Someone that can guide me home, the Goddess Isis."

    "I have known Greatness beyond all comprehension. I have seen what all of the preachers in the world often neglect to mention. I can turn tears of sorrow into tears of fire. And flow through your veins like a melted sapphire. Make you feel like you are finally whole. Then you realize it is I who has Total Control."
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  4. Anaphora

    Anaphora was here

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    The point of a workshop isn't to impress as you sai with "Personally I am not here to impress either one,"... if you were established in the literary world, you'd know that, and if you weren't here to impress anyone, why would you be taking this as a gallery so to speak instead of a workshop Because you aren't really accepting the critical criticism.

    You gotta unerstand, I did like a lot of your poem, but you gotta be willing to take the filet knife to it, and skewer away bits and pieces. You'd be very hard pressed to find a poet who didn't revise their poems 3-8 or 100 times, whittling away to the core of the poem, an cutting the unneccesary parts. Very very very few first drafts, even by people like Billy Collins, or Phillip Levine, or hell, even Saul Williams or Sage Francis are finished right there. I know a damn lot of my poems are reduced to practically trite with all the shit I have to cut on the first writing, and even after the first editting too... its keeping at it to please yourself, and the one person you write for, because everyone has one person they at least subconciously write for.

    Still a little confused on the all to well... like, well as in healthy well being If thats the case, a slight rewording would help, because that's not coming across to the reader, and the meaning is lost sadly, to readers who think its a typo. Like, because you're well, you know it all is that what you mean

    But like I said before, I'm not taking a stab at you or your work, I'm tying to give you positive constructive criticism so you can make your work better with your next revision...
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  5. Percipient

    Percipient New Member

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    I am searching for someone to remind me of where it is that I am from. -this is a lot wordier than it nees to be... you could simply have "I am searching for someone to remind me where I'm from." In poetry words are precious... in prose too, but waaaaaay more so in poetry.

    ^^^ Truth!

    There is merit in a few lines, but...

    Life is very much a part of death. I take them both in with every breath. For I know this all to well. Breathe in Heaven, breathe out hell. Sit back and watch as I become knowledge manifest. Growing more and more anxious as my soul is put to the test.

    From the onset you're tackling a difficult subject to do originally. Hence, it's pretty cliche from the get go... I liked breath in heaven, breathe out hell, but the rest of it was just filler. You show more love to yourself then you do the reader. "Sit back and watch as I become knowledge manifest." That's pretty conceited...

    From a Boy, to a King, to a Man, to a God, and back. Now I am one in myself and I burn like the lightning`s crack. Able to take control of my will. More viscous than a Dragon God who is forced to kill. And afraid of what it is that I will become. I am searching for someone to remind me of where it is that I am from.

    Once again you are distancing yourself, as opposed to trying to identify with people. Such the obvious way to go. Forget words, the whole point of writing is communicating, to convey. You're trying to use certain 'charged' words to describe something you never experienced and if you did, why don't you say what you went through. Show don't tell.... This 'awe the reader' approach has been going on for centuries as poets listened to how men who were struck by intense moments sought to emulate without having felt it themselves. Your words ring hollow... "Able to take control of my will. More viscous than a Dragon God who is forced to kill." Come on now....

    I have walked the Plains of Time all alone. An heir to a long forgotten throne. Who is there that would believe what I have seen So I search for myself a wife, a center in my life, a Queen. Someone to pull me away from all of the insanity and life`s crisis. Someone that can guide me home, the Goddess Isis.

    So I search (for myself) a wife - case in point. Words are thrown in that are not necesarry and muddle the piece. A lot of double talk with end rhymes being wordy instead of prolific. You invoke language that attempts to 'awe' the common man... OOh, he said godess isis It must be dope! See what I'm saying Now - if you had said something like 'someone that can bring me back to life, the Godess Isis' it would have made more sense. Isis is the Mother Godess in Egyption mythos, she brought Osiris back to life. Since you imply you're some sort of divine being in the previous section who is afraid of becoming something worse... now a good woman can help you stay sane ; ).

    I have stood before God and all of his Glory. Yet I am able to sit here and tell you this story. I have tasted wine with the Dark Prince himself. Still I managed to resist his temptation of unmearsurable wealth. I have done battle with Heaven and Hells angels. But they fall short of victory no matter the angles.

    Show!!! Who wants to keep hearing about accolades you claim. I feel nothing! I see nothing but words! "I have stood before God and all of his Glory. Yet I am able to sit here and tell you this story." The only reason I see for you to put in' Yet I am able to sit here' is to fill out the syllables of the elementary rhyme patterns. "I have done battle with Heaven and Hells angels. But they fall short of victory no matter the angles." I like how this sounds, but it doesn't say anything. Except that heavens and hells angels can't mess with you cuz you're such a badass... of course ; ).

    I have known Greatness beyond all comprehension. I have seen what all of the preachers in the world often neglect to mention. I can turn tears of sorrow into tears of fire. And flow through your veins like a melted sapphire. Make you feel like you are finally whole. Then you realize it is I who has Total Control.

    *shakes his head and laughs* The sapphire line was nice... I won't even talk about the drivel.

    Honestly man - The flow is alright but the writing itself is convoluted. If you're not here to impress anyone then don't take offense. You say you wrote it in the 9th grade and I believe that because it's elementary in its approach and craftsmanship as well. I see no alliteration or other writers devices, weak technique and not much overal offered but a few lines. Just ask yourself what you were trying to accomplish... if you wrote it for yourself (which I would find hard to believe, because you do a lot of talking to an audience) then kudos. You can rhyme words together. But that's just a small part. As you improve you'll learn how to economize your words and meld with your audience. If you want to improve.

    You know the motto! Movement in staccato!! (mos def)

    How can people be so arrogant to sit down and write when they have not stood up to live. (forgot where I heard that but boy does it apply)


    Peace.
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  6. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    I have never revised this piece of work, because it was originally a spoken word that I wrote down immidiately after I spoke. I write indeed for someone other than myself, my Goddess, but that's another story. Yes I accept your constructive criticism, but on poetry, I believe it to all be equal as long as it is genuine so there is no better or worse.

    As far as me cutting back the words on my pieces, I do them like that on purpose as fillers. I know the propper way to construct prose and poetry, well, the dictionary defined way that is. But I choose not to do it that way as an expression of creativity. A lot of my work could be cut back so it wouldn't seem so long, but I am satisfied with the length and rarely revise something unless it has to meet a certain standard. Here in the realm, the standard is indifference, therefore the standard is met. On the well thing, I'll leave it to you to understand.

    I know that you aren't taking a stab at me or my work, even though at first it would seem so. Everyone is willing and wanting to help, but few know which way to approach it(help). But thank you anyhow for all of the critism, I've even taken it into consideration, to an extent. But I don't think I'll be changing my work nor my style of writing on the whim of one. Still it is appreciated to see someone disecting it...
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  7. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    I'm glad that you took the time to read and sculpt an image of me in your head of how and why i wrote this the way I did. Honestly, it's appreciated. As far as the point of writing to convey, if you want to use the farthest extent of the word, then yes. But everything you write doesnt get read, nor is the message properly conveyed.

    Then, there are times when you write just to do so, out of habit because you're used to it. Other times you write to awe and dumbfound a crowd because you've said something that you know damn well they wouldn't understand.

    This piece was not specifically noted to have any message in it. It was written to awe, to mesmerize, to capture the imagination of the reader, not the heart strings. I do not take offense to whatever it is that you have to say, because to each his own.

    I agree with you that it has elementary rhyme schemes and lacks in many areas, but it was done like that with intent and purpose. Everything that you're saying, has already been said to me by my editor and chief of staff, but like I tell them I'm not writing to please you.

    You could critique my work all day everyday, and I could tell you that I you're right, but I still wouldnt change it. You know why Because then it'd be your poetry, not mine...
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  8. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    "From the onset you're tackling a difficult subject to do originally. Hence, it's pretty cliche from the get go... I liked breath in heaven, breathe out hell, but the rest of it was just filler. You show more love to yourself then you do the reader. "Sit back and watch as I become knowledge manifest." That's pretty conceited..."

    If I stand in the mirror every day and brush my hair a thousand times you'd call me concieted, a blind judgement. But I am not concieted, I simply like to see myself exist. In the islamic religion, man is said to be the physical manifestation of knowledge. There's more to it, but I'm not a religious man so I'll leave it at that. but anyhow, like I said, thanx
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  9. Percipient

    Percipient New Member

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    I was just saying its not as dope as you think it and that there is always room for improvement. What you should take out of it most is about working with your audience as opposed to trying to degrade them, with psudeo intellectual/spiritual redundancy that meanders and ultimately achieves nothing but to satiate your ego.

    I'm not trying to tell you to write like this and that, but to look at some aspects you might not have bothered to dwell upon. If you take the weak and leave the strong, its still your poetry.
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  10. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    Ego, nothing I really have other than my love and skill in the martial arts, but like I said once,

    I believe it to all be equal as long as it is genuine so there is no better or worse

    who said I think it's dope you. so you're saying it dope, not me. I said that it's creative, as all poetry is even if it's stuffed with psudeo intellectual/spiritual redundancy that meanders and ultimately achieves nothing. you don't have to have a direction to start walking. And as far as taking the weak and leaving the strong, who's to say what you say to me is weak or strong or benificial for that fact you.

    and from your comment about working with the audience instead of degrading them, it seems to me that you took offense to my work. if so then just say so, and I'll have one of the mods close this piece. nothing I write is meant to be offensive to anyone.
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  11. Mind~$oul

    Mind~$oul I'm Pretty

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    Yall need to make a thread in the intercourse if yall want to argue yall points. We are not going to keep uppin the thread with yall going back and forth.
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  12. Anaphora

    Anaphora was here

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    "I don't look in the mirror because I'm a narcisist, I simply like to watch myself exist."
    - Sage Francis...

    And his tone was satirical.

    Sorry, just saw that and thought I'd point it out...

    No one was offended by your work, but maybe a little by your closedmindedness to the comments that weren't "this is amazing"...

    All poetry is not created equal... in fact, 99.9 % of it is created to be thrown away. For instance, you wouldn't call a 2 year old hitting random keys on the piano an equal to Mozart would you? Or even Scott Joplin... the goal of posting something shhould (unless you're just trying to boost your ego, and impress people) be to get comments about what DOESN'T work, so you can change it.

    As far as editor and chief of staff... I don't know what publication you're working on, but I know of no literary focused magazines/journals who have really either, a staff advisor and board of editors, or guest editors usually... but brotha, I'm not here to argue, or demean or anything, because there were a couple nice lines in there, and you definitely have something in you, you just need to leet it come out... 90% of all great writer's work is not only rough, but mostly trashable... an maybe salvage a line, or coupling of words or something...

    Perrcipient: I think you were right on too. Good to see someone else taking the time to give real critiques on here.
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  13. Anaphora

    Anaphora was here

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    sorry mind~soul... I'll stop posting here...
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  14. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    ^^^Well I'm glad that you believe that I am closeminded to anything other than, "this is amazing." That goes to show that you're judgemental. As far as poetry being "Created" to be "Trashed." Only the writer can say that for sure, not you, not me, nor anyone else.

    And most of all, the only thing you're basing all of your statements on is opinion. And as I continually said, to each his own.

    example

    "the goal of posting something shhould (unless you're just trying to boost your ego, and impress people) be to get comments about what DOESN'T work, so you can change it."

    some people post to vent, others to show off, others just because, some because they want their stuff critiqued, and so forth and so on...

    And damnit mindsoul I aint sorry, lol, dagnamit I meant it, lol...

    If you want a good piece of advice, don't try to control the flow of something, just let it be and see what it turns out to be. It's like cooking, you dont wanna add to much salt but you dont want to not add enough. The only way to accurately see it for what it's worth is to not have any stand point on it at all. Nonbiased is the correct term, but working with kids has me defining things before I say them. Anyhow, if you ever decide to have a conversation with me, you'll understand that I could give a care less if someone likes my work or not.

    And as far as chief of staff and editor and whatnot, I could get you a list of publishers and other connections if you'd like me to do so. It's at your own discretion. Hell, I could even put in a good word for you so you could get published too.

    One more thing about poetry being written to be discarded. if it is supposed to be that way, then why would you bother to post it and change it if you're just going to throw it away? 99.9% is a huge percentage. Especialy for myself going on 12 years of writing. And I've kept nearly all of my work. Even almost all of the other writers I talk to about throwing their work away, they dont. But, to each his own...

    Close this thread, I'm done...::Mic Smokin:: lol
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  15. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    One Final Statement, I'm not ya brotha, not until we've come to terms on who you are can I even call you associate...but you seem cool Anaphora, and I know who to come to when I do need a piece ripped apart, lol...get at me on AIM sometime at Xero Satsujin, what else right? lol...~1~
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  16. lpoet

    lpoet POET

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    hmm...i dont really know what to say xero...i guess that i was not nearly as impressed with this piece as some of the other people in here...i think that i've read a lot better from you..the piece seemed to jump around a bit......you didnt seem to have the normal focus that u usually do...however...there were some dope ass lines in here..lvoed the breath in heaven line..shit made me wanna write

    always an intertaining read though

    --make your sig 8 lines or less 2
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  17. that title pulled me in and the content touched me. I liked the concept, nice work
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  18. MISSKEYdaQUEEN

    MISSKEYdaQUEEN Watch the black panther..

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    I loved this piece....true not as much as some others but the depth was authentic...

    anywho..

    Who the hell can dictate how someone does their poetry....to make a comment is one thing but to correct someone else's work is ridiculous! You guys can slice all you want it's his piece...he is the artist he can display his mind as he pleases!!
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  19. Percipient

    Percipient New Member

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    Its amusing to watch you obviously try and play the 'bigger man' when in actuality you'd be more likely cast as the 'disgruntled kid.' Listen up - if you can let your pride go, you can let yourself grow. Ignorance is bliss... but knowledge is excruciating, especially when you're in the company of ignorance.

    Came up with that just now, hopefully it conveys what I'm feeling.

    The Realm spotlights Xero Satsujin and I have to shake my head. This isn't exactly picking from the bottom of the barrel, but it paints a sad picture of the overall mind state of its inhabitants. If this is the guy they are heralding, holding up as an example of quality work, then I must disagree whole heartedly. Forgive me for the length of this post, but I there a few things which needed to be said, in hopes it will get people to think.

    Having had the fortune of reading great works, analyzing them, which consequently gave me insight into what makes them tick - various devices in the interplay of words and their affect on mans tactile and spiritual senses/awareness - it's vastly broadened my barometer as to what is quality and what is not. You can write for 100000 years, and if all you're writing is crap, you're still going to write like crap.

    Lets take hip-hop for example... people who've only heard acts like G-Unit and Chingy might think that's great rap. That it's awesome rap. That it's Hip-Hop!! It's good for what it accomplished (making them money and getting people to dance/ get krunk, nothing wrong with either), but insofar as its impact to the creativity of hip-hop it's nil, zilch, nada.

    Now lets say, you've blessed your ears with Mos Def's Black on Both Sides, Talib Kweli's Quality or even a Tupac or a Nas (just in case you don't know who Mos and Talib are)... Your estimation of Chingy's talent would shrink considerably. Comparitvely you'd realize that its garbage on a lyrical level. That its content is about as far reaching as... oh i don't know... a hamsters tail.

    That doesn't mean you can't still like it. That just means you like garbage. You're piece had an impressive title, much more grandoise then the words therein merited, but there was little for me to appreciate, save a few lines.

    To hear you go on about how creative this is, would be like Chingy trying to say "Right Thurr" is superior to Mos's "Umi's Song" or Tali's "Just to get By." Well actually, you wouldn't even be Chingy but ya know wha I mean...

    Responses such as 'like your stuff/hate your stuff' only serves to feed an ego, not your prowess. Myself and Ana were giving feedback that could be used to improve your fledgling ability. You responded by getting defensive, (of course that's what happens when people burst your bubble) and trying to justify your weakness instead of recognizing it.

    Let me break it down. Writers who don't know what they're doing, tend to use certain words, because they convey the 'appearance' of credibility, intellect, spirutuality, etc... To the untrained, these people wield a language which is perceived to be on a higher level, (desirable for less skilled writers for the awe factor inherent). This guy must be good because he uses words like this. But in reality this is not the case.

    Where as it takes impressive vocabulary to make a fair writer seem more, A marvelous writer can use the language of the common man and simply amaze.


    Can we be agreed that the term 'filler' is used for sections in your writing that do nothing but 'fill up space.' I called you out on filler and you admitted it, but said you did that on purpose... OK?? Since I can not come up with anything substantive I will put in filler.... See what I'm saying?

    Additionally, you want to throw background into the discussion, but what about mine? I've been reading novels voraciously since I was 7 when I came across J.R.R. Tolkiens the "Hobbit." I've written everything from screen plays to short shorts to designing my own magazine. I was chief-editor for my newspaper in high school and for a student newsletter called the "Pulse" for 2 years in college. I got sent to Washington D.C. as part of a student comitee to propose legislation to our Senators. I've been an English Major/Desktop Publication for 3 years, with my aims on Mastery.

    You can get praised by people all you want, but when it comes from your contemporaries (people in your field, those who do what you do and are more aware of intricacies) can you truly feel accomplished.

    I'm not admonishing you for writing what you presented, but your lack of willingness to see your numerous shortcomings. Neither did I say your piece was dope. You are the one who seems to think it is quite remarkable.... It's creative?? Maybe in the sense you wrote it... that it creates an ego boost when someone thinks its wonderful... but I would hardly call the cliche creative. What it is you created? The piece doesn't say anything much, its like the standard brag song in rap. I have cars, cash, hoes. I am god, walked the plains of time, I am superior to heaven and hell... blah blah... a bunch of blunt statements hinting at the divine, trying to put the audiece somewhere instead of taking them there.

    It's arrogant to believe your work would be offensive to me. It's the internet LOL, you gotta be pretty immature to catch feelings on the net...

    Frankly, it was... nothing to me. It failed to stimulate my senses, or my mind. It came off like just a guy trying to use words in a vain attempt to dazzle, to build him up to be this entity of profound wisdom... etc... It's your attitude that's a bit offensive honestly, like when I see a kid in the grocery store throw a temper tantrum. Hopefully though, you can see reason.

    When someone isn't worshiping your work, (ignorance is bliss right?), giving you props and singing your praises - it's THEM that's gotta have something wrong with them. Know you boast about writing for 12 years, being honest..... and this IS IT?? I can't believe you spent all this time and you're only this adept at writing. Unless of course you count all the way back to Kindergarden where they taught you to write your name... I guess that would put you at about 17... and your writing ability on par with the average 17 year old with visions of granduer.
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  20. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    Opinions, everyone is entitled to one. And you're right, Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is excruciating.

    "It's arrogant to believe your work would be offensive to me. It's the internet LOL, you gotta be pretty immature to catch feelings on the net..."

    dear me;

    This guy has taken his time to write this to you, so make a mental note to insult his intelect even further later. Ohh yeah, throw a few meaningless "BIG WORDS" in there too. If you have time, don't forget to respond with a bias remark later. On second hand, don't bother, be ignorant and not listen to this man.


    I didn't bother to read this, because I didn't want to be wrapped in your self indulgence...::waiter, check please::
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