"Forgiveness is a process."

Discussion in 'Ladies Lounge' started by Ignorant, Jul 11, 2009.

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  1. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Who believes and practices this statement?

    Because I don't.

    My wife says this a lot, but what she really means is, "I have a problem forgiving people because I can't get over the pain that easily, so I need time to think about whether they deserve my forgiveness."

    I say that if forgiveness is a process, then so is apology. If a transgressor has to wait 2-3 weeks or 2-3 years to be forgiven for a transgression, then the transgressed should expect to wait just as long for an apology.

    What these people don't realize is that forgiveness frees YOU, not the transgressor. You're only hurting yourself by holding onto that bitterness and anger. You're taking away years from your life and adding wrinkle lines and gray hair.

    Besides, grudges kill relationships, not the mistakes. Mistakes can be mended and trust can be restored with true remorse expressed by the transgressor and true forgiveness extended by the transgressed.

    Basically, when a transgression is made, the transgressed has 3 options:

    1) Remove the person from his/her life... ie., break up with them
    2) Seek revenge
    3) Forgive and move on

    The transgressor has 2 options:

    1) Ignore his/her mistake and act like they did no wrong
    2) Apologize and make amends


    When the transgressor has done his/her part, which is option #2, then the transgressed has a responsibility to forgive, IF he/she wants the relationship to continue. If you're a Christian, you're supposed to forgive whether you receive an apology or not, because you have to do that in order to maintain your relationship with Christ. There is nothing in the Bible that says anything remotely similar to "forgiveness is a process" or that you seek revenge or that you wait an indefinite amount of time to forgive. That's just a man-made supposition.

    If you can't get over the transgression, then you need to end the relationship. It's really that simple. To me, at least. Since I realize that we're all fallible human beings, I don't have that big of a problem with forgiveness. I read an article once that said, "love is something you do, not something you feel." And that sums it up perfectly. For people who only feel love and base all of their actions on feelings, then I can see how forgiveness can be so difficult. However, if you're spiritual, wise and maintain the proper perspective of love and relationships, then forgiveness should be easy.

    What say you?
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  2. Radium

    Radium f k

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    its just hard for a woman to forgive a man

    she wants her man to be perfect in every way so whenever this ideal is violated - if even in the slightest way - she gets secretly shocked by this tiny and quick electrical jolt that she tells nobody else about. she wants ideal love. anything less would violate her dream of a ideal lover and an ideal love

    but in fairness as a woman she does deserve that. the way to get a woman to forgive you for whatever you've done is not to ask for forgiveness but to remind her that you are her ideal lover

    you must remind her that you are her knight because for whatever reason you have just violated that concept to her and shattered her sense of ideal love

    thats what she is upset at ultimately. you momentarily destroyed her dream.

    she wont ever forgive you until that feeling returns
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  3. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Fuck that... I'm not perfect and I don't want you to expect me to be... if so, I will expect perfection from you.

    Love is reciprocal... it's action-oriented... it's a responsibility, not a burden... so I will not be made to feel like a burden by trying to hold on to some false ideal.
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  4. Radium

    Radium f k

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    when heracles was young he came upon a crossroads and two goddesses appeared before him

    arete, the goddess of virture and kakia, the personification of "badness" essentially

    arete said if you follow me I will give a life of struggle against evil but with glory at the end

    and kakia said if you follow me I will give you a life of instant pleasures and riches that you will never have to struggle or toil for

    and heracles chose arete

    the reason:

    good things dont come without struggle and effort. a woman deserves an ideal lover. this is part of her nature as a woman. this is so hard for a man because we are born crazed and reckless and selfish. We are thus presented with a choice. We can either do what it takes to become her ideal lover and the long road of struggle this will be for us to go against our inherently crazed and reckless and selfish natures

    or we can just expect to receive her love with no work or effort at all to please her nature.

    a woman's nature is set in stone. she lives her life only so she can have an ideal lover and experience ideal love. this will never change. its the man thats presented with the choice to either want to give that to her or lamely expect things to come to him without effort.

    ultimately theres only one way to give a woman what she wants.
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  5. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Let me think about what you wrote for a moment, then I'll respond... it's time for me to reflect on my ignorance here.
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  6. samii so sexii

    samii so sexii ..sunkist siren..

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    Its very easy to apologize. Once you have, your conscience is free. However, love should compel you to be sympathetic to the fact that YOU caused her distress.

    She should not "punish" you for being human and making a mistake. But you should not penalize her for being human and finding it difficult to forgive.

    What you did may have challenged her faith/trust in you. and of course, being the person that already did your part [putting the "im sorry" band aid on her symbolic wound] you're expecting her to be all healed and over it.
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  7. mr.rip

    mr.rip New Member

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    My wife says this a lot, but what she really means is, "I have a problem forgiving people because I can't get over the pain that easily, so I need time to think about whether they deserve my forgiveness."


    man i'm the same way but i'm working on it. but i do agree with her it is a process. thats why i read the bible so much it teaches you how to forgive iggy.
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  8. Sincere313

    Sincere313 Realist of them all

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    I consider it a process for me because its not that easy just to forget or get over what someone has done to you. Im not sayin' that It takes me years, or months to forgive someone, but its going to take a nice lil minute. Holding grudges serves no purpose, honestly.
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  9. mr.rip

    mr.rip New Member

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    True that life is to short for that it took me time to realize it.
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  10. Tha Cunnysmythe

    Tha Cunnysmythe Unsavoury Negroid

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    I agree. I remember it took me like three years to forgive someone I felt had betrayed me.
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  11. NwThtUKnwMe

    NwThtUKnwMe NAIVE

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    Forgiveness is a gift, not a requirement from our loved ones in our lives. How many times can we expect to be forgiven? Even God expressed a disatisfaction with backsliders knowing very well of our human nature.

    Asking for forgiveness should go far beyond saying "Baby, I'm sorry..." words that mean nothing. Forgiveness should also include putting forth the effort to being the person that we portray ourselves to be in our loved ones' lives when they are around and when their not.

    It's hard to forgive because few people, truly sorry or not, cannot put their pride aside in order to get this accomplished. Or they simply feel as though their spouse, friends, and family should just accept them how they are without ever being honest with them about themselves in the first place.
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  12. mr.rip

    mr.rip New Member

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    Even God expressed a disatisfaction with backsliders knowing very well of our human nature.

    and he is such a forgiven God.
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  13. samii so sexii

    samii so sexii ..sunkist siren..

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    x___sammi
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  14. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    This is your opinion... although, I find that many people will disagree with you... pride compels people to forgo or delay apologies AND forgiveness altogether... for me, it's easy to do both, because I'm an individual who continually keeps his pride in check... I realize that we're all fallible human beings... and for me to act like another person can't err even though I do it all the time is just plain hypocritical.

    Love should also compel you to mend the relationship as quick as possible by forgiving and getting over your bruised ego by putting WE first, especially if your partner has made a concerted effort at reconciliation... if you can't forgive, then you just might lose a good thing... then 20 years later, you'll be saying "damn, he really wasn't that bad."

    Good point, Sami... I'd feel you up right now if you were near.

    I just expect people to think like me, sometimes... which I know is an unreasonable task and probably as egotistical as I'm making not forgiving out to be... but still, if you see that the person is truly remorseful and that he loves you, why delay? I mean, the way I see it, I could just as easily commit that same offense and I would want forgiveness, so why should I tarry in extending it to others? I'm all about love and harmony and I rush at continuing it whenever there's a fracture.
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  15. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    I've searched myself and I truly believe that in a marriage, there is NOTHING that is unforgivable.

    It all goes back to my relationship with God, as well, which I value more.

    Seriously, if you still have your life and wasn't flogged for hours and then nailed to a cross, then why are you trippin'?

    But I understand... we're all just human.
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  16. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Hmmm... another good point...

    What if you are putting forth effor to make amends and the person refuses to see it because they're so caught up in their hurt? Is that fair?

    I mean, rebuilding trust requires effort on the injured party, as well... don't you think?
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  17. samii so sexii

    samii so sexii ..sunkist siren..

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    You're making the implication that your SO is intentionally witholding forgiveness. Have you ever thought that she is truly hurt? I mean, yes she may be caught up in her emotions and dwelling on them, but maybe that's because the gravity of the issues weighs heavily on her.

    Everyone deals with pain differently. Everyone grieves differently. So you're very right in understanding that she's NOT you. She's never going to be you. So you should let her heal at her own pace. IMO, if you were my man and you were just steady trying to get me to "get over it already" that would piss me off...

    have you ever stopped to think about the role you played in all of this?? Just because you said sorry and "really meant it" doesn't erase whatever it is you did that damaged her. Maybe you shouldn't have done it in the first place and you wouldn't be here...

    Then saying that she might lose you if she doesn't forgive according to YOUR terms?? That sounds like CONDITIONAL love to me buddy. yeah you might as well save her the heartache and start filing for divorce now.
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  18. RealMS

    RealMS Ne te quaesiveris extra

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    I can agree w/ that. For me forgiveness was never a process. It's either you do or you don't. People never realize I'm doing this for myself, not so much for them. The quicker I am able to forgive the quicker I can forgive myself as well.

    The thing I've struggled with in the past is just that-once they are forgiven they expect things to be how it used to be. When..no...you lost my trust and certain things just aren't given upon freely. But if I'm willing to make it work regardless of what was done & I'm seeing the same thing on repeat I would much rather just move on with my life and go separate ways.

    I would do anything for them if they needed help, doesn't matter what they did to me. But I would never rely on them for something, should I ever be in that position. It's kind of twisted but that's how I feel.

    Hit it on the spot.

    That is very true
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  19. NwThtUKnwMe

    NwThtUKnwMe NAIVE

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    Of course, rebuilding trust requires effort from both parties just in a different way. If the injured party is giving the person who offended them a chance to make amends, that is effort. The rest of the "process" is interpersonal, and you will never know what the injured party has gone through to get over whatever pain has been caused to them in order to forgive you.

    It may not seem fair, but is it fair to cause suffering on someone you love? I cannot believe that they are just refusing to see the effort that is being made, they just are not in place where they can make peace with what happened and forgive. Forcing them to "hurry up and forgive" or call it quits, is absolutely not going to help anything, it just makes you seem less remorseful.

    (I hope this isn't too personal)
    And if we are talking about something between you and your spouse, you have to keep in mind that you didn't just hurt and offend her, you've done this to the relationship. You've shattered her whole idea of the life you've built together and the confidence she had in it and in her position. That is going to take work for her to restore and once thats done, she will forgive you.

    Now matter how you slice it Love, she is right on this one, forgiveness IS a process...
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  20. Matters_In_Grey

    Matters_In_Grey Opinionated Asshole

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    I agree with Ig. You're not only forgiving to forgive the other person, but you're also forgiving for yourself.

    The "process" implicates that you've betrayed yourself building such expectations of your partner, which is unfair for both parties because this indicates perfection(it's not in our nature) inviting stress for both parties. A partner made a mistake that wasn't done intentionally, which IS our nature as opposed to your expectation.

    In the bigger picture, the goal of this "healing process" is to try to afflict the same pain unto your partner in correspondence to yours or make them feel worse than they already do until you heal quicker than you're causing your other to feel (assuming your partner has very deep feelings for you). Even if you did forgive later, then how do we know if it even completely healed? I mean why else would you delay your pardon? Your partner shows remorse (meaning the partner understands, they've made a mistake), but you're asking for more than they understand to give.

    You're underestimating the power of this "process". You're dwelling on distress, and the scary part of it is it progresses. If the s.o. makes another mistake (and it will happen somehow), then what's gonna happen or who knows what happens if something different occurs that might hurt you more deeply than or equivalent to that distress. This could make or break a relationship.

    In this lifetime we're always gonna have distress somehow, what's the point of dwelling on it? In analogy, you're scraping your scab to extend the pain and giving a chance of inviting an infection or some sort of destruction that could harm you more than you expected. I'm not saying one is right or wrong, I just disagree with progressively harming oneself physically, mentally, or spiritually intentionally, to the point it makes it more difficult to or cannot heal anymore. You make your heaven out of hell.
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