For those that accuse Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of being a pedophile

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Thrilla-Ali, Apr 19, 2008.

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  1. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Directed to athiests, christians, jews and agnostics alike..

    First i will start out with the clinical definition of pedophilia

    Pedophilia or paedophilia (Commonwealth usage) is the primary or exclusive sexual attraction of adults to prepubescent children. A person with this attraction is called a pedophile or paedophile.

    Prophet muhammad (pbuh) married old woman, even older than him. Aisha was the only wife who was very young.

    Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Semites back then, during biblical times. No-one had any objections to these marriages because it was the cultural norm back then. Even today, (Muslims and non-Muslims alike), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married.

    It has been over a thousand years since that age. Even now, in some parts of the world, children are infinitely more mature than they are in the west. They attain mental maturity at a much faster rate, because of the circumstances that they live in. Some 10 year olds even have jobs, others are able to take care of their entire families. To classify any and all children as being nothing more than children isn't true. And to classify a prodigy like A'isha as being nothing more than a child is to do injustice to her. 15yr olds use to lead armies and conquer countries back then.. young men were warriors back then fighting in wars..

    If you check out Islamic History, you will find examples where Muslims both male and female at very young age have done things which even 50 year olds at our time cannot comprehend doing.

    As for this being a cultural norm in Arabia and other semite lands, check out the reports.

    Imam Ash-Shafi'e said: "During my stay in Yemen I have come across girls at the age of nine who menstruated so often."

    He (Ash-Shafi'e) also said: I have seen in the city of Sana'a a grandmother while she was twenty one. She menstruated at the age of nine and gave birth at the age of 10

    Ibn Al-Jawzi narrated similar stories from Ibn U'qail and Abbad ibn Abbad Al-Muhlabi.
    Abbad ibn Abbad Al-Muhlabi said: "I have witnessed a woman from Muhlabah who become a grandmother at the age of eighteen. She gave birth (to her daughter) at the age of nine and her daughter gave birth to her child at the age of nine (as well), so the woman became a grandmother at the age of eighteen


    It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they had their first periods. Prophet Muhammad's marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions. As a matter of fact, during these times young marriages were evident in all continents (Africa, Asia, Europe...)

    - The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times.

    - Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine emperors and nobility.

    http://www.roman-emperors.org/aggiefran.htm

    This was also apparent in late 19th century AMERICA

    In the late nineteenth century,"Age of consent" referred to the legal age at which a girl could consent to sexual relations. Men who engaged in sexual relations with girls who had not reached the age of consent could be criminally prosecuted. American reformers were shocked to discover that the laws of most states set the age of consent at the age of ten or twelve, and in one state, Delaware, the age of consent was only seven. Women reformers and advocates of social purity initiated a campaign in 1885 to petition legislators to raise the legal age of consent to at least sixteen, although their ultimate goal was to raise the age to eighteen. The campaign was eventually quite successful; by 1920, almost all states had raised the age of consent to sixteen or eighteen.

    http://womhist.alexanderstreet.com/teacher/aoc.htm

    As a matter of fact, it still is...

    Age of consensual sex even today is subjective. In Ontario, Canada it's 16 and in British Columbia, Canada it's 14. In Holland it's 12 years old, 14 in Italy, France 15, Germany 16, Ireland 17, UK 16

    As for the holy bible (since many christians like to attack muslims on this claim. Also because too many people emphasizing on islam but not christianity and judaism [scape-goating]).

    - Many jews and roman catholics believe mary was 12-14 years of age when she had jesus. Jospeh engaged in sexual acts with mary, who was much older than her (perhaps 35-43 years of age). It was culturally common at that time for much older men to wed younger women. Assuming that Joseph was a successful businessman (a carpenter), this would seem likely.

    - Abraham slept with a slave GIRL (hagar) to produce ishmail, he was 86 years old.

    With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if some concubines and wives of solomon, his father (david) and his son (Rehoboam) were young girls.

    - The holy bible indirectly supports the marriage of young girls as well, hence

    "If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.
    "If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He does not have authority to sell her to a foreign people because of his unfairness to her."If he designates her for his son [Note: "his son" means that the master is either her father's age or even much older!], he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters.

    The fact that the master can either marry her or marry her off to his son, means that MOST LIKELY, SHE IS HIS DAUGHTER'S AGE and younger than his son!! So he's probably at least 30+ years older than her. Yet, he himself (her father's age or even MUCH older) can marry her.

    - Keeping in mind the ideas of "political correctness" and "absolute morality", in Biblical times the
    age at which a girl could marry was puberty. However, during the Middle Ages it was usually
    twelve years old. Now in most "Christian" countries it is between fourteen and sixteen years
    old.
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  2. The Giant

    The Giant New Member

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    He was a great con-artist like the rest.I'm not going to Hell for saying it.
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  3. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    And your just a perfect person right?
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  4. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    He was a pedophile and you just admit to it. it was ethically wrong. If Muhammad was a messenger of God or an honorable man, as he made his Allah to proclaim him thus, he should have known that what he was doing was dishonorable and unethical.

    Infact, you listed a lot of religious influence which gave the acts of pedophila the thumbs up. You're argument of pointing to other religiously influenced pedophila to justify muslim pedophila is illogical. They were all wrong. You're just going to have to realize sticking your dick in a little child of nine years is pedophila. These sex offences rob children of their childhood.

    So the question is thrilla are you still advocating sex slaves and pedophila? Also thrilla how old is your girl friend, six, seven, eight, nine? I'm aware mohammad married Aisha at six years old. It was not a dynastic marriage either, he had his eye on her since she was six. The issue is "uswa hasana", a model for all time, whatever Muhammad does is what Muslims must do, throughout time and space.

    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
    Narrated 'Aisha: "that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years"

    What is the point of this thread. To exclaim mohammad is a pedophile like alot of other religiously influenced were from different cultures? So it's fine to engage in sex acts with children? This thread pretty much says to me you advocate acts of pedophila with nine year olds as fine and dandy. What will you advocate next, incest? Incest with children? After all, they did it back then. However, that doesn't mean it was right and none of that makes it acceptable.

    And "the gaint" might not be a perfect person, but one thing I'll beat he is not is a pedophile, an advocate of pedophila, nor a religious follower of a muslim leader who was infact a pedophile.
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  5. barnizzle

    barnizzle HIP HOP

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    damn, never knew this.
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  6. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Was it Muhammad's fault though? That was the cultural norm.. and he didn't have a fixation for children, which is the clinical definition of pedophilia ..

    According to this line of thinking.. Abraham, Jospeph, and others mentioned in the bible are pedophiles too.. Both Abraham and Jospeh had sex with young girls.. yet 33% of the worlds population is Christian.. so why do people like you only choose to focus/scape goat on islam?

    Also, Muhammad did not marry aisha at six, he married her at nine. The point of this thread is to point out the hypocrisy of people who solely attack Islam to nourish their own personal vendetta on islam. However, they say nothing about Judaism or Christianity.. as if sex slaves aren't in the OT and NT..

    How could he have "known" when in his culture it was a norm?

    It is forbidden in Islam to marry a person who doesn't want to be married. Aisha agreed to the marriage and sp did her parents. As a matter of fact, she was suppose to marry another man but the engagement was broken. It did not rob Aisha of her childhood, she had a lot of respect for the prophet Muhammad pbuh (check hadiths) and she was an islamic scholar and a prodigy. She was just fine with the Marriage, so how can you say it robbed her of her childhood then?
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  7. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    ^Don't be so quick to believe lies, guy. Geez, people are utterly credulous. (@ Bar)



    Two years after marrying the Prophet (P), Hazrat Ayesha participated in a battle... yeah, She wasn't nine, fellas, as no one younger than fifteen was allowed to fight.

    Plus, she converted to Islam around 610 C.E. and her marriage to the Prophet took place after the pilgrimage (Hijrah) in 622 C.E. Conversion requires a certain level of... maturity, I believe. Of course, Ayesha was renown for her brilliance... ahaha.

    The idea of Ayesha being nine, etc. is based on hadith that is considered inauthentic... at best. The weightiness of hadith is based on a chain of narration and the certainty of that decides the authenticity of the hadith.


    And none of this is fact
    , as it is all based on hadith, but there is certainly more pieces of authentic proof in hadith of her maturity then her absolute youth (where there isn't any authentic proof).





    And for everyone who believes Islam is unfair to women, please consider the example of Ayesha: a revered warrior considered one of the most knowledgeable of the Prophet's (P) sahaba (companions) and an example for all Muslims.
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  8. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    Yeah, no one knows Hagar's age... so...

    Also, she conceived a child... so, She wasn't a kid.
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  9. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Yes she was.. she was a slave girl. If it's possible for a nine year old to have children, then I'm sure its possible for a 12 year old or younger...

    Imam Ash-Shafi'e said: "During my stay in Yemen I have come across girls at the age of nine who menstruated so often."

    He (Ash-Shafi'e) also said: I have seen in the city of Sana'a a grandmother while she was twenty one. She menstruated at the age of nine and gave birth at the age of 10

    Ibn Al-Jawzi narrated similar stories from Ibn U'qail and Abbad ibn Abbad Al-Muhlabi.
    Abbad ibn Abbad Al-Muhlabi said: "I have witnessed a woman from Muhlabah who become a grandmother at the age of eighteen. She gave birth (to her daughter) at the age of nine and her daughter gave birth to her child at the age of nine (as well), so the woman became a grandmother at the age of eighteen


    The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times.
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  10. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    'Girl' doesn't denote age.
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  11. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Read this please..


    The claim

    http://www.ilaam.net/Articles/Ayesha.html

    The rebuttal (look closely because there's no seperation line or quotation between each refutation)

    http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=4604&CATE=1

    PDF files (these PDF files are probably the best info on the web that you can obtain on this issue and it will clarify everything for you)

    Aisha's young marriage

    http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/aishamarriage.pdf

    The Age of Aishah's Marriage Between Historians and Hadith Scholars-1.pdf

    http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/3586fc87-1034-4881-b9e4-7696e97226ce
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  12. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    A girl is a female child, an immature woman.. i hope you did your studies on semitic culture.. young marriages were a norm.. we cannot judge them in todays society that we live in, because our minds have been conditioned in a much different manner.. our culture today is very different


    Aisha narrated those hadiths too.. also, these hadiths are found in (1)Bukhari (2)Muslim (3)Abu dawood...

    On several occasions, all stating that she was nine years old.
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  13. barnizzle

    barnizzle HIP HOP

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    i was being sarcastic...miss night.
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  14. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    I pointed it out here: "it was ethically wrong. If Muhammad was a messenger of God or an honorable man, as he made his Allah to proclaim him thus, he should have known that what he was doing was dishonorable and unethical." i.e. If he is a prophet of allah as you claim he should of been above the norm. Moreover, islamic scholar Muhammad Ali Al-hannoti noted: "Muhammads marriage to Asiha was will of Allah and, Allah usually is not the one who we are allowed to argue with for any ordinance or commandment." The Qur’an 21:23 says: "He is not questioned for what he does, but they (people) are questioned for what they do." i.e. Allah wasn't against Muhammads pedophilia because mohammad enjoyed pedophila. Allah doesn't exist. Allah is nothing more than a tool selfishly utlized by muhammad to justify his pedophile behavior as righteous. When he could of utilized allah to do the complete opposite speaking out against pedophilia.


    You didn't read a word I said. I didn't scapegoat. You tried to scapegoat. You tried to justify muhammads pedophilia by pointing to other religions that condoned pedophilia. I agree they all condoned pedophilia. Now you are commiting the straw man fallacy of misrepresenting my position. You're line of thinking (Taqqiyah) has put you in a carious position, you have no other choice but to accept muhammad as a pedophile. Having sex with a nine yearold child is just that pedophilia. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophila. You're basically telling me you as a muslim have no moral compass, because you keep trying to justify the act of pedophilia.



    I provided the proof. Whether you agree or not is irrelevent to this fact.

    "Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 (most reliable and most prestigious of the collections of hadith.) Narrated 'Aisha: "that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years"

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
    Narrated Aisha:"I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)"



    SAHIH AL BUKHARI: (d 256/870). Generally accepted to be the most reliable and most prestigious of the collections of hadith. It is a Jami collection and a msuannaf. Al Bukhari was said to have revised it three times. Al Bukhari sought to list only hadiths which possessed uninterrupted chains of credible authorities. He wished to impress the contents on the rader and to that end divided the book into more than 100 chapters with 3450 subsections, each with a heading to indicate its contents. http://members.cox.net/arshad/hadithcol.html



    There hasn't been any conversations on islam on here. Noone has slammed islam ethier. You came in here trying to slam others as if that justifies muhammads pedophile behavior which obviously it doesn't and this bothers you. I.e. your thread failed majorly because there is only one hypocrite here and that is turning out to be you.

    The new testament condoned sex slaves. Judaism condoned sex slaves in the old testament as well. Back to my point: The fact is, Mohammad doesn't get a free pass on sex slaves issue either. Sex slaves are still legitimently traded in Islamic nations today. Don't deny the truth about mohammad other wise you become the hypocrite and loose all creditablity. At this point, You must denounce child marriages undertaken in imitation of Muhammad, and declare Muhammad's example unacceptable. But I don't think you will because you infact advocate pedophilia and sex slaves. http://www.mslna.com/news1.html


    i.e. you do advocate Pedophilia? And Islam does advocate muhammad's act of pedophila as a righteous act which other muslims like yourself have no problem imitating? http://www.islam-watch.org/AyeshaAhmed/Pedophilia-Islam-Allah-allowed-Prophet-Muhammad-Practised.htm By the way, thanks for not answering one question I posed to you. I expected as much.
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  15. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    Um, yeah... so at what age does a female stop being a girl and become a woman?

    This is what is known as word games.




    Utter nonsense. You're saying that hadith are fact? And not graded on strength of authenticity? There is a weakness in the chain of narration... which are all based on the reporting of the then aging Hisham ibn Urwa... which he based on the authority of his father.

    Facts (more or less):

    - The birth date of Aisha's half-sister Asma can be deduced: She edied in 693 at 100 years old and she was ten years older than Aisha... making Aisha's birth date 603 C.E. Also, it is almost unanimous that Asma was at least 27 years of age at the time of the first hijrah making Aisha at least 17 years old at the time and 18-19 years old when she married the Prophet (P).

    - uh, yeah, She FOUGHT IN A BATTLE in 624 C.E. Don't think she did that at eleven years old. She had to at least be 15 to do so as such were the Prophet's (P) stipulations at the time for women.

    - She was one of the first to convert to Islam around 610 C.E. along with her father Abu Bakr.

    - All of Abu Bakr's children were born before 610 C.E.


    - From Maulana Muhammad Ali's Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad:

    So, at the youngest... Aisha was 14 when she married, but there is evidence she was considerably older than that even.
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  16. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    1. First i will start off with sex slaves in the bible..

    The following passage describes sex slavery.

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. [Note: "his son" means that the master is either her father's age or even much older!]

    So a man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them

    2. Aisha was engaged to Muhammad (pbuh) at the age of six, but he married her at the age of nine. (that's why she moved into his house at nine, duh?)

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
    Narrated 'Ursa:
    The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

    He was waiting till she hit puberty. That's when the marriage was sealed (like an engagement).

    3. How do you know god found young marriages unethical back in the early centuries, a primitive time? Are you god? As a matter of fact, the minimum age for marriage under Jewish law was 13 for boys, 12 for girls. So i ask you again, how do you know god found it unethical back then? It made sense at that time, but not today... we have evolved from biblical times and the mind-set of society is different now. I guess every Semite living in the 7th century was a pedophile too since it was a cultural norm, right menaz?

    . Aisha had a choice weather to accept the marriage or not, she accepted.

    . Her parents accepted

    . It did not raise any brows for it was a cultural norm

    So then what was wrong about it at that time if it was accepted by everyone including the bride?


    4. You always scape goat islam here on rm.com - - no poster here is unaware of that. If you think Judaism and Christianity is 'better' than islam by way of scripture (which i think you do), we can go quote for quote = ) I will pretend I'm an atheist just like you to prove my point, and do it solidly. Contrary to what you might think.. the OT is also a christian book. Don't forget that the god of the NT is the same god of the OT.. LoL

    5. Age of consensual sex and marriage is subjective. So lets also keep that in mind..

    I don't advocate pedophilia. If i lived in the 7th century, i wouldn't have a problem with young marriages because my mind would be conditioned to accept it.

    How can he live "above the norm" if that was the norm? Since you claim he's not a prophet and "Allah" doesn't exist, why would he need to use "Allah" as a tool for pedophilia, when young marriages were already the norm to begin with? What your saying makes no sense... he wouldn't need a 'tool' at all... according to your own line of thinking, he was an average man living in 7th century norms (since you believe he wasn't a prophet).

    Also, a pedophile is attracted to children only, but how come his other wives were either older than him or very mature in age? He even bore children with his other wives and loved them, as he did with Aisha. Put it together, young marriages were a norm and they didn't hurt or startle anyone at that time. God works with cultural norms, more over, i stress that he only had one wife of that age.
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  17. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Read (it's quite evident you never took a look at the links i provided, which already answers these questions)

    Shaykh Gibril F Haddad on this issue

    Shaykh Gibril F Haddad on this issue


    Shaykh Gibril F Haddad on this issue

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  18. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    When she starts having her period.

    Taken from Muhammad's (pbuh) last sermon

    As you can see, Hadith taken from Bukhari, muslim, abu dawood (especially if reported on several occasions) are all fact, especially those from Bukhari. The prophets left his wisdom/hadith for us to follow, don't wave a blind eye to that
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  19. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    I prefer doing my own research on these matters... for good reason too.


    Ibn Kathir:
    “Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha.”

    Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib (Who wrote in the 1300s) on Asma:
    “She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years.”

    That's two sources, one classical therefore not "apologist" as you say, confirming the 10 year age difference between Aisha and Asma.



    Yeah, so you basically have one source for all this? Seems fair to me. Anyway, I've never heard any of this and to my knowledge, Aisha did participate in the raid and had subsequently participated in other defensive efforts.


    Aisha herself has said:

    “Since I reached the age when I could remember things, I have seen my parents worshipping according to the right faith of Islam. Not a single day passed but Allah’s Apostle visited us both in the morning and in the evening. When the Muslims were persecuted, Abu Bakr set out for Ethiopia as an emigrant.”

    Abu Bakr left for Ethiopia in 617 (could she remember that if she was three yrs old, etc.?)... Use your judgment; at what age do children begin 'remembering things?'



    No. Al-Tabari says:

    “In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.”

    Before the Call, 610 C.E.


    And females are never referred to as girls after this point? I'm sorry, the word 'girl' denotes youth, yes, but nothing more in the conventional sense. 'Girl' is not a scientific term...


    Sunnah is for following in the path of the prophet, yes, but it is NOT fact. Only Qur'an is because it's the only written part of Islam that has not changed and remains uncorrupted by language, etc.

    Plus, the age of Aisha is hardly a part of Sunnah... which is probably why the narrators were less than diligent in recording it.
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  20. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    If we all did our "own research" there would be no need for scholars. Obviously scholars exist to help people understand islam, they help clear up any misconceptions and contribute to the prevention of innovative beliefs (such as yours). Most people cannot achieve the level of knowledge scholars have, societies need their scholars.
    With that said, islamic scholars don't support your view on this issue.

    I offer you to read this yet again. If you don't, i got nothing more to say to you unless it bears more weight than the sahih books i've quoted (bukhari and muslim)

    http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/aishamarriage.pdf

    http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/3586fc87-1034-4881-b9e4-7696e97226ce

    Every one of your quotes is not part of the six major hadith collections.

    You quoted Ibn Jarir Tabari's history book. I'm quoting sahih hadith and you're quoting a persian historians history book.

    Al-bidayya wal-nihaya is not a reputable source, it's not even part of the hadith collections like al-tabari's works.

    Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports are not reputable either.

    After the Qu'ran, Sahih Buhkari is the most revered book.. second is sahih muslim and third is adbu da'ud. Again, after the Qu'ran, here are the most reputable sources for knowledge and guidance (1)bukhari (2) muslim (3) abu da'ud (4)al-tirmidhi (5) sunan ibn maja

    Those are the levels, to reject bukhari's, muslims, and abu da'uds blunt recollection of events (reported more than once) and accept al-tabari's works and others over it, is simply waving a blind eye to the truth and nothing more...

    I have two sources of evidence, one in Sahih Muslim and one in Sahih Bukhari. They don't call these books "sahih" for nothing [see bold]

    Don't be surprised hagar was a young slave girl that slept with an 86 year old Ibraham (pbuh). This was normal in their culture, biblical times are much older than the 7th century, especially during the days Ibraham (pbuh).

    These quotes (below) were the norm of islamic days, after biblical times. So judging from the norm, hagar must've been a girl, a young female who was able to bear children, unlike sarah who was much too old to do so at that time and had to resort to sarah as a surrogate mother (until god put his blessings on her to give birth to isaac). No doubt, hagar very well could've been 9-14yrs of age like mary, the wife of middle-aged jospeh and the mother of jesus (pbuh)

    - Abu Tughlub ibn Hamdan married the daughter of `Izz al-Dawla Bakhtyar when she was three and paid a dowry of 100,000 dinars. This took place in Safar 360 H. (Ibn al-Athir, al-Kamil).

    - Al-Shafi`i in al-Umm reported that he saw countless examples of nine-year old pubescent girls in Yemen. Al-Bayhaqi also narrates it from him in the Sunan al-Kubra as does al-Dhahabi in the Siyar.

    - Al-Bayhaqi narrated with his chains in his Sunan al-Kubra no less than three examples of Muslim wives that gave birth at age nine or ten.

    - Hisham ibn `Urwa married Fatima bint al-Mundhir when she was nine years old (al-Muntazam and Tarikh Baghdad).

    - Our liege-lord `Umar married Umm Kulthum the daughter of `Ali and Fatima at a similar age per `Abd al-Razzaq, Ibn `Abd al-Barr and others.

    - And our Mother `Aisha herself was first almost betrothed to Jubayr ibn Mut`im before her father dropped that option when he received word from the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless and greet him and be well-pleased with them.



    Judging from the norms of semites at that time, it seems pretty clear to me..
    test
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