Fixing Haiti Ain't Rocket Science

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Crates, Jan 12, 2011.

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  1. Crates

    Crates Well-Known Member

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    So basically Haiti just needs capitalism like all the other developed countries have practiced. Why do people want to prescribe something different for poor countries like Haiti??
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  2. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    because they dont want to fix haiti...
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  3. Noncentz

    Noncentz Sieg Heil, M'fer!

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    Indeed most Haitians have absolutely no interest in fixing their country.
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  4. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    all they doin is raping and killing down in haiti right now...and dying from a massive cholera outbreak
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  5. Noncentz

    Noncentz Sieg Heil, M'fer!

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    Haiti's problem, like many other predominantly African (racially) states, is simple. No weapons capability.

    With no effective manufacture of weapons and a proper military any stability you can generate is easily destroyed by even a mediocre force.


    African states better stop worrying about school and all of that bullshit, even if you must put children to work (fuck world opinion.), the primary goal must be military. Everything flows from this.

    We (the U.S) aren't number 1 because we're nice guys with amazing schools.
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  6. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    the u.s. is far from nice guys...but i get ur point. and our schools suck...we're ranked like 30th in the world when it comes to education
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  7. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    Dealing with Haiti's issues is significantly more complicated than the opinions and options offered in this thread so far suggest.Haiti's history and her comprehensive achievements were of the first importance to the Western Hemisphere during the days of Toussain't Louverture,Napolean,et al.,and in many ways serve as a grim reminder to imperialists as to the amazing abilities of any oppressed people. Haiti's current position isn't an accident,it's the result of the collusion of centuries of economic imperialism,rapacious politicking and interior corruption.I have studied this country and its amazing history which most U.S.A. citizens are entirely unaware of,and find the solutions offered by most U.S.A. citizens whom I've spoken to of whatever race to be just as bankrupt as their knowledge of Haiti's history.Any solution proffered must be multilayered,nuanced,rooted in Haitian and world history,long term,and essentially revolutionary.The military is NOT that solution; it may be a tool used as a necessary step by a beneficial autocrat like Toussaint Louverture was; but it's NOT the solution.It's essential,it's important...but it's not a panacea by any means.Haiti's populace is mixed,her politics atangle,and she literally shares real estate with SAN DOMINGO,formerly known as SPANISH SAN DOMINGO.Any major,status quo changing action Haiti takes will impact San Domingo which impacts Spain which impacts Europe which impacts the U.S.A. which impacts the world.This is multiplied to the nth degree if Haiti actually shucks off the yokes of economic imperialism which have been set up since the early 1900's and late 1800's to destroy her.

    Suffice it to say: if it weren't for Haiti,Toussaint Louverture,Dessalines,Christophe,Maurepas,et al. the United States would never have received THE LOUSIANA PURCHASE by which the U.S.A. purchased the land between the 13 colonies and the Pacific Ocean from Napolean's France (without the knowledge,consent,consulting of or even the thought of the Native American,who actually lived on the land and who would be the actual "owners" if anyone owned the land that the European powers wrangled over) and coined the concept of "Manifest Destiny"; slavery would have continued in the Western Hemisphere for at least another century or two,and Mexico would not only have NOT gained her freedom from the Spanish,she would have found herself under the Franco bootheel after removing the yoke of the Spaniards.

    The Powers That Be know the power of history,organization,military might,and have never forgotten the gigantic mess that Haiti made of their plans when she was beyond their reach.They know that Haiti would become a symbol of similar emancipation for others worldwide still under their bootheel,and they won't allow anything to disrupt their plans for this world.This is exactly the same model that they have successfully shackled Africa with.

    Which still doesn't shift the onus of responsibility from we who want and will strive for a better world for all of God's creatures,it just means that we need to hearken to our history and the calls of our ancestors and do what's never been done before; AGAIN.
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  8. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    "Manifest Destiny"

    u droppin knowledge deth..


    yo 6 paragraph postin ass...
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  9. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    Lolol thank you my brutha
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  10. Noncentz

    Noncentz Sieg Heil, M'fer!

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    Very nice.

    But without weapons and a sturdy military with strong defensive ties you can't do shit.

    Again, The U.S doesn't run the world because God is with us, or we're smarter than others, or blah blah blah.

    It's because the U.S has an unmatched military power and will bomb your ass back to the stone age if you fuck around.

    That was the same with Britain, Rome or any other 'world leader' past or present.

    If you neglect the military aspect you're fucked. It's the most important thing (after farming) in the business of the nation state.
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  11. Noncentz

    Noncentz Sieg Heil, M'fer!

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    You don't know about Manifest Destiny? You should read up about it, it was a curious belief...
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  12. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    The most important aspect of nation building is first having the leadership to effectively,speedily and efficiently organize a nation and effectively,speedily and efficiently implement whatever program that the leadership and the people of the nation see fit to initiate.Usually first in the process is the need to initiate national unity and national pride.From this primary requirement springs everything else,which FIRST is POTENT ECONOMIC POWER and SECOND is SUFFICIENT MILITARY POWER WHICH WILL PROTECT NATIONAL ECONOMIC MIGHT and DETER INVASION FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.Oftentimesthese two forces feed each other in a perpetual circle.I agree with pretty much everything else you said,and Bar already knows about "Manifest Destiny" before I wrote about it.And yes I completely agree that it's a shall we say STRANGE belief,but it illustrates perfectly the power of national leadership,propaganda,the drive toward economic self-sufficiency,and the requisite military might to protect economic strength.
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  13. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    naw i actually read up on that back in my teenage years...its just good to hear other people that are aware of history
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  14. Noncentz

    Noncentz Sieg Heil, M'fer!

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    True true.

    People ignorant of history are easy prey.
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  15. Noncentz

    Noncentz Sieg Heil, M'fer!

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    1. You humor the people, like in the U.S, you don't actually let them decide shit. The 'People' are idiots for the most part .. who want to drink, fuck, party and watch TV they have no business in affairs of state.

    2. *Sigh* Economics is whatever you decide it to be, money has taken so many forms it's amazing. So again, - 1st comes military.

    3. Economic power is decided at the end of a barrel, look at #2.

    4. With sufficient military power - you can float your currency on the markets as you please, I mean, who would dare challenge you?

    5. CASE STUDY : The U.S is bankrupt, has been since 95, and yet is still considered an 'economic superpower' -How? MILITARY MIGHT.
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  16. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    The USA has been nursing a deficit since prior to 95 yet it was manageable because the deficit is largely artificial in nature.America is a economic superpower not only because of her incredible inventiveness but also because the primary world powers second to America have also invested heavily in the USA.Right now,the Sino-American economies trump all others and America is retooling under President Obama to leap forward again."Think big". Frankly,America is simply too big and too powerful for the rest of the world to let us fail economically.

    A military has to be properly outfitted.Trained.Equipped.And compensated.In short,economics can't come from the end of a barrel when you don't have the economics to make a barrel.

    Which means economics is before military and after the FIRST STEP which is finding powerful,unified,visionary leadership which must put forth the effective,speedy,efficient methods of achieving goals integral to he national development and psyche.True "leadership" could take the morally bankrupt,corrupt,manipulative type that is the bar for the USA.Or we could reach into Haiti and take direct examples from her history--we are talking about Haiti after all--and note that her most successful and legendary leaders and leadership did NOT come from the model that you espoused.

    Economics is not only rooted in money.In economic theory,there are three main bases to economies: human capital,land capital,and cash (currency).That's it.It is the wellspring of any economy's or group's successes and failures.The financial and military sectors are closely knit though,because once the financial sectors fund the military to a certain point,IT IS CONCEIVABLE that the militaries can simply gaffle people for loot they need or want.But again this approach is massively oversimplified and speaks staggeringly of what you apparently are completely unaware of regarding the specifics of Haiti's history and why a simple: BUILD A WHOOPAZZ MILITARY solution is NOT THEE SOLUTION.It's PART of A SOLUTION,but it's not only NOT a panacea it's likely to set up a corrupt military dictatorship at some point if not properly checked.
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  17. Your Idol

    Your Idol ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

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    Our K-12 system is below average but the universities are top notch.
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  18. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    yeah but if k-12 is below avg

    then it doesn't mean shit if the colleges are top notch, our children won't make it to'em...
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  19. Crates

    Crates Well-Known Member

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    Ok but do you acknowledge that for Haiti and African countries to turn around it will require a combination of market reforms and democratic reforms? This has been the model that has turned around so many poor developing countries. Look at Botswana in Africa. After independence it followed the path of market economics combined with a governing system influenced by their traditional system of governing. As a result they've had one of post colonial Africa's better economies. This is why when it comes to African countries and Haiti's reasons for under development I put more focus on their countries leader's governence styles and their economic policies. After independence too many of Africa's new leaders implemented the wrong economic policies trying to follow some brand of marxism. Both African and Haitian leaders need to adopt policies that make it easier for their people to create wealth.
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  20. Crates

    Crates Well-Known Member

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    The role of clear and enforced property rights in turning around a poor country.



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