Discussion in 'MMA, Boxing & Other Combat Sports' started by NOBLE SOLDIER, Nov 29, 2008.
yea he's no slouch..
Ya'll think BJ's stand up is better than St. Pierre's? I like St. Pierre in the stand up more. BJ's BJJ is obviously better but then St. Pierre is a better control/wrestler/ground 'n pounder...
I think BJ's hands are better, but GSP has some kicks that could potentially be a problem.
Personally, I think BJ has this fight no matter where it goes. He has takedown defense, striking, and he's better on the ground.
Damn... So you have BJ as the favorite? I got St. Pierre... And I don't care how good BJ's takedown defense is. If St. Pierre wants to take it on the ground, he'll take it on the ground. And you say he's better on the ground but that's half 'n half IMO. Different type of ground fighters. St. Pierre is a MUCH better control/wrestler/ground 'n pound. And you know it completely changes up your jui-jitsu game when someone's ground 'n pound is nice. A whole new ballgame.... But we'll see. I think it's gonna be one of the greatest fights ever.
^for the record its JIU jitsu lol. you keep spelling it jui jitsu just wanted to clear that up i thought you said you trained it.
anyways, yeah i agree with mac. bj's hands are unquestionably better. i also agree with your comment about the kicks. they could potentially be dangerous. although there havent been a lot of kicks thrown at bj in the past couple fights, the few that have been thrown have landed and have not been blocked. his striking is amazing and incredibly accurate and he definitely has the better hands. not to mention bj has one of those faces where you can hit with a baseball bat and you still wouldnt open him up. he has a great chin and has yet to be knocked out where as we all know gsp's chin is vulnerable, and his face opens up easier.
both fighters have the 2 best take down defenses in MMA. if one of them doesn't want to go to the ground, it likely won't. as far as take downs, gsp has better take downs, but bj's take down defense? insane.
gsp's take down defense? also insane
bj has better hands. gsp's kicks worry me a bit but bj has the stand up advantage. they both have insane take down d, so even IF gsp took bj down.... would he really want to? bj's flexibility makes his already incredible bjj almost unmatched in mma.
gsp has better wrestling/gnp. but do you think he can pull it off on bj? i dont. if gsp ends up in bj's guard i see bj taking his back via crazy bj sweep.
gsp has better conditioning, without a doubt.
the question is has bj moved up in weight while maintaining his cardio shape? if the answer is yes, i have bj winning the fight. if not, the advantage goes to gsp, although i still have bj winning personally.
their first fight ended in a very controversial split decision win for gsp. this was when bj was in horrible shape. however gsp has increased his skills dramatically since their last fight.
its going to be without a doubt the best and most important fight in MMA history. we'll just have to wait and see.
I have... my fault for spellin' it wrong. but is it that serious?
Isn't that the same thing they said about Jon Fitch? I disagree... I think if GSP wants to take it on the ground, he will. I think BJ Penn will have a harder time... Just my opinion though...
gsp's take down defense? also insane
And GSP's kick/punch combos are some of the best in MMA. And again, I think the ground and pound game changes the entire BJJ game. St. Pierre also has some of the best control and ground and pound game. I think even elite BJJ fighters will struggle with it.
I'm not too sure about that because St. Pierre's base is so solid. Sweep him means he's going to find space inbetween him and St. Pierre's body but St. Pierre stays extremely tight aside from when he's throwing blows. And when he throws, usually fighters are more worried about blocking or avoiding getting hit to think about sweeps at that point....
That's insane. I don't think BJ has too good of a chance in this one. We'll see but I really honestly feel this fight will end up on the ground and St. Pierre is going to control it...
And I feel St. Pierre has increased his skills dramatically as well. He's become one of thee elite wrestlers in the game and control guys as well. And I think his striking has even improved from what it used to be.... Again, I think his kick/punch combos are some of thee best in the UFC...
Yes... I agree 100%. Can't wait....
no its not serious at all just pointin it out lol. i saw you spell it like this numerous times i thought if you trained in it you might as well be able to spell it hehe
i disagree with his kick/punch combos being the best in mma... they are good, but bj's stand up is definitely superior.
i really, really can't see gsp controlling bj on the ground. i just can't see it. bj is on a whole nother level than the bjj gsp has faced since the last bj vs gsp fight (bj's bjj for mma >>>>>> matt serra's). also, other than matt serra gsp has fought almost pure wrestlers (koscheck, fitch, hughes) all have similar styles, and while hes beatin all of them, bj's style is completely different from all of them. none of them are as well rounded. all of their specialties (except serras) are wrestling. while gsp has shone dominance in many of the same style of fighters, bj has beaten (since his last gsp fight) pulver, stevenson, sherk. all different styles, and all completely dominated by penn. (im not counting his fight against hughes after his gsp loss- this was also when bj was in poor shape and we all know what would happen if bj fought the same matt hughes that gsp just beat).
since bj has re committed himself and dedicated himself to being in shape, hes a whole nother fighter. skill wise, bj penn is the best pound for pound fighter on the planet.
^^^ I dunno about that. We'll see tho'. And don't forget Fitch is a black belt in BJJ as well. And you mentioned the fighters BJ Penn has beaten like GSP wouldn't annihilate them as well. Don't get me wrong... I love BJ Penn and think he's top 5 pound for pound EASILY. But I just think GSP has 'em. I think when they fight, we will see how dominating GSP is on ground. And as said previously, IF GSP WANTS TO TAKE THE FIGHT TO THE GROUND... THE FIGHT WILL END UP ON THE GROUND.
I'm sorry... I don't care how good of take down defense BJ Penn has. Jon Fitch was arguably one of thee best in that category and St. Pierre tossed 'em around as he pleased.... It will be an INCREDIBLE fight tho'...
i'm not saying bj will win in this fight 10 out of 10 times. its not going to be that dominating. both fighters obviously have a chance. and it could be that gsp wins it, we will see. honnestly i've debated this so much in the past 3 months that i have no more energy to discuss it. and for the record bj's bjj is way better than that of fitch. a black belt in bjj doesnt mean every black belt is going to be on the same level, as im sure you know. i just want to point out that there are many many levels of black belts. bj is on a whole nother level than most of the bjj black belts in mma.
^^^ I do agree on that but I don't think he's an explosive submission guy. I think he's more of a control/tactical BJJ on the ground where as some BJJ are explosive and can pull out a submission at any given second. But there aren't many of those in MMA IMO. And I agree on the whole black belt thing... I mentioned that in the other jiu-jitsu (happy? haha) thread in this forum.... So of course there are different levels of jiu-jitsu... I just don't think he's as far advanced as some people make it. I think the flexibility helps enormously and it just helps him stay outta a lotta situations and he's able to use it to advance his position a lot... But I agree... I've debated this fight more than I have any fight aside from who would win St. Pierre vs. Silva... So I guess we'll put it to rest 'n see when it happens. At least we agree on something: it will be an AMAZING fight.
This hasn't been done? Sorry ya'll, I'll start making sure. Even if it isn't huge, at least it's something to keep this shit moving.
normal rockwell - 9-1
jayoo - 8-2
noble - 8-2
Mark - 7-3
ben - 6-4
Maca - 4-6
ill get on the horse soon...noble took the reigns for a minute....i wont let this die, thanks for the tally
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