Discussion in 'Overtime: Off-Topic Discussion' started by Diggles, Jan 12, 2012.
What say you to this
Source: Bob Cesca: The Fantastical Crackpot Cult of Ron Paul
What say you to this?
Not American but curious considering that I do kind of like Ron Paul and his policy, however the article makes some persuasive, yet odd and somewhat unsubstantive arguments.
Im curious as to what governments have implemented a 'libertarian' philosophy completely and what historical evidence there is of the "fact that it's never been successfully implemented. Ever."???
What political philosophy has ever been implemented 'successfully'?? and what does he mean by 'successfully'?? Has there ever been a successful completely Republican government??
Then he goes on about Paul's 'electability' saying his response is dumb and thats one of the many reasons people dont like him, but his reasoning on why the response was 'dumb' was a complete stretch and any 7th grader could tell what was implied.
I stopped reading there because the writer suffers from the idiocy he claims Paul supporters have....
And Im not even really a Paul supporter namean
Yeah I read most of this. I've been relatively vocal on these boards about not really being an ardent supporter of Paul simply because I don't subscribe to the majority of the inherently republican ideologies that he espouses, but this article doesn't really do the argument against him any credit. The fact that only a small portion of the article at its conclusion addresses Paul's policies in any significant detail while the rest is content to chortle at his "unelectability" is telling of a lazily partisan perspective. And repeated references to the historical failures of libertarianism are moot due to the fact that that particular philosophy has so rarely been implemented, successfully or not. Regardless, to argue against a philosophy as a whole based exclusively on historical precedent of failure is illogical anyways.
All in all, an interesting read if not a very compelling one.
Ron Paul>rest of tea party.. Obama>Ron Paul
I've read many interesting and thought provoking articles that argue against the idea of Ron Paul as a serious candidate, or against the idea of his policies being realistic or applicable in todays political arena... this wasn't one of them.
This guy seems like he doesn't even know the basics of Ron Paul's policies and if he does, he clearly doesn't understand the arguments behind them. I wrote a fuck load of shit in the other Ron Paul thread so i'll just find the best responses in the comments section.
From the article:
"During Tuesday night's New Hampshire Primary election coverage, Lawrence O'Donnell hilariousl*y and saliently described Ron Paul as "not a candidate,*" therefore Jon Huntsman was the realistic second place winner, though not technicall*y since he placed third on paper. Likewise, Mother Jones' Kevin Drum recently wrote that Ron Paul is a "crackpot.*"
Naturally, they're both correct. Times a thousand"
Another intellectu*ally dishonest appraisal of Paul and his chances. Of course, neither the author of this article nor the pundits he cites had the integrity to look at the upward trend of Paul's polling:
In a hypothetic*al matchup held today, Paul would only lose to Obama by 1%; he'd get 47% of independen*t votes to Obama's 40%. Yet somehow Ron Paul is "not a candidate"*.
Lol, how funny that MSNBC and Fox News are actually in agreement in one domain: perpetuati*ng the establishm*ent by marginaliz*ing Ron Paul.
heres one that covers all bases...not from the comments section but from a mans own website in which he chose to write an open response to the article
Progressives for Ron Paul: Response To Bob Cesca on Ron Paul not being a Friend to Progressives
incredibly retarded... stopped reading the underpants gnome bullshit. this ignorant fuck has no idea what pauls direction or his goals are. he has no business even discussing the topic.
goddamn im so proud of you guys.
The guy who wrote the article is acting like Mitt Romney has all the fucking answers and it's so easy to right this ship. America needs to cut spending and if they have to cut 1 trillion, then so be it. It's not like their plans for unemployment have been making a drastic improvement. Unemployment will happen when the rich people who run this world decides it's time to end the high unemployment rates. No matter what happens, the rich are going to benefit from any political move. They probably have back up plans from A-Z. That's how they got into their position by making these moves and they're not going to give it up for anybody, president be damned. Class warfare is only when the poor rise up against the rich. Fuck them all!
Bruno (2009): Ron Paul Interview - Video
I still laugh at this shit though.
If you think that ANY candidate who is elected president of the United States of America will have ANY real chance at changing foreign or domestic policy to a significant degree, you are sadly mistaken. The office of the President of the United States of America is one that is controlled and puppeteered by corporate and banking interests. It has been since the days of the Hamiltonians and the Jay Treaty.
Eyerate, and anyone else who believes otherwise is extremely naive.
is that why ron paul is being blackballed by every major media outlet on the planet? and whats your suggestion? this system is broken forever and we're slaves to the Illuminati? the reality of the situation is anyone who holds the "roll over and take it" position is a tinfoil hat idiot.
is congress bought? yes. can that change? of course it can. is the office of the president of the united states being handled by a level headed and "INCORRUPTIBLE" politician the best way to get this country moving in the right direction. of course it is.
Paul is one of the few people who would get into office and actually have the balls to try and fix one of the major sources of our financial problems which is the entitlement programs.
Man...I didn't say anything about the Illuminati. The fact of the matter is that there are many more aspects to America's political and economic corruption besides that of a "bought congress".
My point, however, is that no politician who is a genuine wild card and has a genuine interest in instituting increases in the welfare state, increasing the implementation of public goods, or even slightly decreasing the gap between rich and poor in the United States will ever make it into presidential office.
In this country, a presidential candidate needs mountains of funding to propel himself/herself into office, and funding of that magnitude can only come from one place; Wallstreet and large corporations. In exchange for funding, many of these financial and industrial institutions force the candidate to place former employees of the very same corporations and banking institutions as cabinet members.
Your hero "Ron Paul" will never make it into office. He will be slandered/discredited/criminally framed/character assassinated first. If he does make it into office, it will be because he will have knuckled under and succumbed to the corporate and financial giants running the show.
I know you're still young and idealistic, Eyerate, and I'm not trying to depress you, but there is very little action you can take in this country to implement actual change, short of a violent overthrow of government, which I consider to be playing right into the hands of those running the world, just as much as complacency does.
You obviously have NO idea what you're talking about. All that shit you described in the second paragraph is the Progressive agenda (The thing that's REALLY been ruining America and has caused our decline over the last 80 or so years.) which is the exact opposite of what Ron Paul believes in. He's a libertarian. As for your assertion that corporations likely wouldn't fund him I think if they actually looked at his policies and realized that he would be making attempts to either remove or at least decrease the corporate income tax they absolutely would. The reason so many businesses move away from America is because it costs SO much in taxes to run here. You know why there's a fuckton of businesses running in Delaware? I'll give you a hint, it's not because they have outrageous tax rates. Japan, if I recall correctly, has the HIGHEST corporate tax and we're the third highest. Lately Toyota and a couple other Japanese car companies have been putting factories here. If we were to lower our corporate tax to a low, flat rate or eliminate it completely we would have corporations from all over the world opening up shop here and creating MILLIONS of jobs for American citizens.
As for the rest of your post it comes off as paranoid. A violent over throw? I don't think we're quite THAT far down the hole yet and I'm generally very pessimistic.
The cynic in me would agree with much of what you wrote, but that is no reason not to go to bat for someone, or their ideas.
Ravenous must be French 'cause he surrenders pretty easily.
what are you talking about? hes already been "slandered/discredited/criminally framed/character assassinated" and WORSE.
your post is oddly reminiscent of the "we'll never have a black president because of the white racist secret wallstreet regime". i suppose the reason he got elected wasnt that we saw a MASSIVE shift in voter turnout by demographic or that this country was tired of the same old shit... clearly the cloak and dagger corporations got to him on some "dance monkey dance" shit right?
do you even understand the gravity of the idea that paul has been completely painted as "INSANE" "UNELECTABLE" "ISOLATIONIST" and every other fallacious slanderous term under the sun....
and that didnt work.
so they moved on to a complete media blackout. even going as far as to refuse to mention his name in the standings while hes damn near winning the first 2 primaries.
that didnt work.
now were going into south carolina with paul right on mitt romneys ass(in terms of actual primaries, not speculative straw poll bullshit). ron paul STILL holds the record for the most money raised in a single day for a campaign, and he still has the most money donated to his campaign from active US servicemen and women. even more than barack obama, the sitting commander in chief.
if you wanna roll over and spread your mancunt for the long dick of a big brother totalitarian government, go for it. i'll be over here, with the smart and motivated people, working for the change we desperately need.
Separate names with a comma.