Eminem> Jay-z... deal with it

Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by thedream233, Jul 17, 2006.

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  1. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    ^^^ I'ma huge fan but substance from Hov!?!?!?

    Are you serious? His songs are either about crack selling, hustling, girls, his jewels, his cars, or how dope he is... Eminem's substance is DEF'NITELY "deeper" than Hov's outside his "lemme act stupid 'n say crazy shit" style....
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  2. Mr. sickVisionz

    Mr. sickVisionz The Gentleman's Producer

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    I have to say that Eminem being a better overall rapper and dropping overall better albums than Jaya-Z is some shit you'd only hear on the internet... along with crap like Jurassic 5 is the best hip-hop group or Chamillionare is better than TI.
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  3. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    Thats cause on the internet you can say what you really mean. Many people say Jay is the best rapper alive simply because thats what everyone else says, and they're afraid to be criticized for not thinking that way. In my life, tons of people call jay-z the best and when I ask why, they just cant even give good reasons.
    When I say eminem is better than jay-z many people look at me like I'm crazy.
    But to me its honestly crazy to think that Jay is a better rapper than Em. Em's skills are lightyears ahead of Jay's.
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  4. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    All Ems songs are just as meaningless, only in different ways.

    His Mom
    Halie
    Kim

    I dont know these people, yet I hear song after song about them?

    For the record Hov aint made a song about jewely since Girls Best Friend on the Blue Streak Soundtrack. He mentions it from time to time, as do most rappers in the commercial landscape, but he doesn't dedicate entire songs to any one thing of such little relevence.

    Hov don't really talk about nothing to be honest. There is something about what he is saying though, that speaks to the everyday person, he takes real thoughts and puts them into music, no forcing, its real shit.

    Further more Hov doesn't (or hasn't in a long time) make songs about selling crack. All his songs are remnicent of things he has done, not things he does. Which is what makes songs like Allure so fucking dope.

    Hov makes alot of songs about his personal life, just like Eminem. Only Hov has done it longer, so maybe Em makes songs about his personal life just like Hov. The honesty and sincerity of these songs is the reason both are 2 of the greatest.

    Now you talk about Ems crazy style, when nearly all his D12 songs are done in that format, his entire first album was that format, half of Encore was that format, half of MMLP was that format, and TES had a few songs in that format. How can you go "outside" that style, when at least 60-70 percent of the songs he ever made reflect that style?

    The thing about Hov is he takes them songs about crack, and gives them substance, but not only showing the good sides of things, but reflecting the bad as well. No, not every song he makes contains substance or a life lesson, but of ALL the rappers, especially in the commercial world, Hov has some of the most substance in music, outside maybe Kanye West & Talib Kweli, Common...them dudes. But look at people like Ludacris & 50, they have no substance WHATSOEVER.

    You say Hov talks about girls, well thats one thing people wanna hear, Em even tried it with Superman, however instead of being broad Em usually talks about girls with the word Kim instead. Its the same shit, I just dont think he has as many other real life experiences to draw from.

    I'd like to further point out, that Jay-Z has never made a song about cars as you claim. Parkin lot Pimpin is close (& it sucks), but thats the only real example I can think of. So how is a guy with hundreds of songs and only maybe 1 about cars, only talking about cars every song? Like I said, he mentions them in his upbeat songs, but the car is always a part of the song, and not the other way around.

    I will say he talks about how dope he is quite a bit, but rap is about braggadacio. He somehow makes the songs hot though....

    But if you want real substance...I could prolly post a million verses where he speaks on some real shit.
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  5. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    Why? Its a choice we make. Its all about what you as an individual like, it doesn't have to be anyway. Why do people eat chicken? They like the taste. Why do some people not eat chicken, the don't like the taste. We can't control our taste buds, and in the same sense, something about us, the way we were brought up, our moral standards, just WHO WE ARE dictates the type of music we are going to like without the individual really having a say in it. I cannot force myself to like something that is wack, it's just wack. It's just "The Way i Am".

    lol @ The rest of your post though. Eminem has no albums even as good as the Black Album. Eminems albums have so many cluttered up horrible songs. Reasonable Doubt is all about selling crack? Well, SSLP is all about using it then.
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  6. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    WTF are you talkin' about? Hov doesn't make songs but he talks about it....

    And once again, I didn't say Em's catelogue is EXTREEEMEEELLYYY diverse in content but IMO, it's more than Hov's... Before any Hov album comes out, you can predict what he'll talk about... Just like Em's but Em hits u with somethin' out the blue a little bit here 'n there....

    And no, what Em says is "real shit" too... What he talks about outside his comedy tracks is stuff people feel all the time.... They just don't express it to the extreme level he does.... EVERYDAY, people think about wanting to kill their girl... Not literally, but the feeling........ Everyday, people think about their seed.......

    What Em's sayin' is REAL shit too... Whether you believe it or not......

    Yes he does... He makes songs about hustling ALL THE TIME.......... And I'm not doggin' 'em for it... But you're throwin' it at Em like what he does is wrong... Hov does what EVERY rapper does... Almost every rapper, you can predict what they'll talk about before the album drops......... Hov is no different....

    Eminem gets way more personal but I agree somewhat... Hov keeps it a LOT more generic....... Em goes into FULL detail....

    I disagree... I think it's 50/50............. That's versatility.... He's doin' more than one style.....

    That's why Luda 'n 50 aren't mentioned anywhere near the greats....

    lmfao....... are you fuckin' serious? just durin' the 8 Mile shootin' there was Mariah, Britney Murphy, his mom from the movie, and groupies.... And Superman wasn't about Kim... If anyone, that was about Mariah and other groupies....... And Superman was FIRE.........

    He doesn't make songs fully about cars but he talks about it 24/7.... If you deny this, you're lying to yourself....

    I'm not blaming 'em for that.......

    My point again....... I'm not blamin' Hov for it... You went at Em and I'm sayin', you're bein' EXTREMELY biased/dickriderish to say that about Em as a defense for Jay-Z who's substance is VERRRRYYY short of spectacular.... Em doesn't have the deepest shit, I think his "real" shit is "more real" and "realistic" (as far as emotional value) to the everyday human bein' than Hov's....
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  7. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    You could predict the songs on the black album? That is impressive. If anything every Hov album sounds VERY different from the last.

    I mean putting his mom on the hook was predictable as all hell, seens how nobody has ever done it.

    Then taking it back, and doing 2 songs without hooks was predictable? Considering he hasnt done this in a great number of years, I dont feel it is.

    Even content wise, he was on a completely different plateua. 99 problems, Dirt Off Your Shoulder predictable?
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  8. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    WTF? Slim Shady LP dove into SO many different topics outside of drugs... Are you serious? Bad Meets Evil, Role Model, Brain Damage, '97 Bonnie and Clyde, If I Had, Just Don't Give a Fuck, As the World Turns, Still Don't Give a Fuck, Rock Bottom were about drugs? woww....

    And you're crazy if you think no Em album is as dope as the Black Album...

    As I said before, I'm a huge Hov fan but I rather listen to any of Em's first three albums over any Hov album....
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  9. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    That was my exact point...if you can honestly say Reasonable Doubt is only about selling crack, then you could say SSLP is only about using it. If you wouldnt say that to begin with, I wasnt talking to you ;)
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  10. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    Also, you keep saying "Outside his comedy tracks".

    70 PERCENT OF HIS SONGS ARE COMEDY TRACKS.

    Well, the other 30 percent...blah, almost everything he does is comedy. Dont make me list every song....


    Eh, we are both biased. I think hov makes the most personal songs around. Daddy Where Have You been compared with Eminems song about his dad, Cleaning Out My Closet? I just don't see how Eminem is more personal. All he does is talk about killing these people, Jay keeps it 100 percent real.
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  11. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Dirt Off Your Shoulder is another hater type track......... 99 problems is get off my back type track.... These are predictable... I'm not talkin' about exact tracklistings but I'm sayin': I could name 10 things I expected on the Black Album before it came out 'n they woulda all been on the album... That's the scenario with almost any rapper that actually sells... The question is, how many "things" do they surprise u with?
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  12. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Cleaning Out My Closet is WAYYYYYYYY more personal than Daddy Where Have You Been.... WTF? He's talkin' 'bout how his mom had maunchausen syndrome... Hov isn't personal at all... He keeps more of his shit VERYYYYYYy generic... He hasn't even made a song about Beyonce, who he's apparently in love with, and has made songs about generic girls WHILE HE WAS WITH HER...

    How is that gettin' personal? Get outta here........
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  13. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    I think you can predict pretty much any rappers albums. I dont mean you, I mean anyone. Rappers dont journey outside their comfort zones often.
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  14. PrOFouL

    PrOFouL New Member

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    Ya'll both biased as fuck. Ya'll diggin' and diggin just because the other is, lying to ya'll selves.
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  15. nappyjim

    nappyjim Active Member

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    Exactly.

    Jay talks personal when it benefits him and puts him in a good light, a larger than life figure.( you never hear him rap about the days when he was rockin his hawiaan shirts n shit)

    Em tells us all. About his childhood getting the shit beat of him, about how he tried to act black by wearing chains n shit and got laughed at. Em puts himself out there, good or bad. Jay dont.

    Just the way Jay carries himself, he has let the king shit get to his head. You see how he came on stage back at the show when Nas first came out? He came out like MJ used to. In that sideways stance with glasses on, looking out to the crowd and having them cheer for like 10 minutes before he even moves a muscle. You might say its an act, but I think he truly thinks he is the greatest ever. hell, he said he was as good if not better than BIG years ago. If thats not ego, I dont know what is.
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  16. The_K3

    The_K3 ^Secksi^

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    jay-z has shitty lyrics
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  17. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    Actually he has rapped about them shirts and shit, wish I could think of the song right now.
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  18. Tha Cunnysmythe

    Tha Cunnysmythe Unsavoury Negroid

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    Eminem reveals too damn much, I think.

    I need not hear track after track about his moms, wife/ex-wife/best friend/disgusting whore of a babymuvver/one true love/soulmate/girlfriend/potential murder victim and daughter.
    It gets very tired and just comes off as whining to me - Especially when he changes his feelings every fucking album! On Encore he waited ten tracks before changing his mind yet again.

    Jay has done the same with his dad (which is a subject where Em has never budged), but never to the same extent. I remember on the Dynasty album, Jay mentioned his dad and said something like "but it's all good dad, holla at ya lad" and then later on the album said something like "I don't need you, fuck you". At the end of The Black Album, he says 'What up, dad'.
    It's the same principle, but he doesn't fill half of his albums with the shit! You get the same feeling of conflict, but it feels more significant because he doesn't touch upon it often. Em has overdone the whole 'deeply personal tracks' angle to the point that albums feel like therapy sessions and tracks about his daughter, moms and Kim have reached saturation point. It's difficult to care any more. He comes off as a needy, insecure bitch! I can't respect that. Jay at least comes off as a goddamned man.

    Also, Jay talking about shooting his brother and running away into the night like a coward, leaving him to bleed is, to me, much more revealing than Em using countless tracks as emotional tampons.

    "...and by the way, this microphone/Is not a place to sort your self-esteem issues; do that shit when you alone!" - Talib Kweli.

    But I have to agree that Em's potential skill level is higher than Jay's, though I've felt Jay more since Em dropped The Eminem Show. I'll bump SSLP and MMLP over almost any Jay album, though Reasonable Doubt and, to a lesser extent, Blueprint, both have that polished feel that Em's albums lack.
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  19. SpAnKy

    SpAnKy 플레이보이

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    This thread is dumb. The person who made it has some homosexual biased towards Eminem.

    There's no real logical argument presented
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  20. KnightMere

    KnightMere KnightMere

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    agree

    Em is fav rapper
    jay and em are both GOATS in my book
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