Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by thedream233, Jul 17, 2006.
Musicologist, that is their job.
Ill respond with my opinion on a few things you said.
I dont find Jay to be generic, but rather one of the most introspective in the game. People follow him, not the other way around.
I aint talking about music when I say Hov is a better rapper. Im saying, Eminem is a writer, really, anyone that devoted could make good music following the steps he does. My point there was, if you wanna talk about rap skill in its PUREST and RAWEST form, the guy spending months writing a song aint as talented as the dude doing up just as good songs in his head. Now I aint one to make a big deal about that shit, good music is good music reguardless how you come up with it, but if people wanna talk about raw rap talent, that should be taken into consideration. If people wanna ignore all eminems horrible poppy songs to say he is talented, again, that should be taken into consideration, if ya follow that? lol
Of the songs you said are as good as Dead presidents, the only ones I could possibly agree with are Sing For The Moment & Stan, and actually, Lose Yourself is too.
How you can say Quitter is as good as Dead Presidents is blasphemy to me. Same for Forgot about Dre, Dead Wrong, there is nothing special about these songs. The reason the verses are good is because they are so off the wall, nobody else would wanna spit them. I challenge you to listen to all them songs, then Dead Presidents and reconsider your stance there. I like Soldier, but it aint that hotness like Dead Presidents. Iunno, you and me obviously (judging from your list) are looking for different shit in music.
I meant who on this site. Yall just tryna one up each other on some meaningless shit like "I know more about hiphop". Who gives a fuck?
Well if you are going to make bold claims about who the greatest is you need to have some info to back that up. When you start using false information it hurts your credibility. That is the whole point. I genuinely love the music and my actions and work have corresponded accordingly. I could crae less about one uping someone that is clearly loss. I do care about the music enough to clear up what is becoming a common misconception. It is one thing to jusy say he is the greatest in my opinion. There is no comment for that. When you make bold comments as fact then I must jump in. In my opinion Ghostface is a top ten rapper dead or alive. I could put up a strong argument for him based on his group and solo work but I would never say he is the greatest in his prime. That is the difference here.
Nothing that happened 20 years ago has anything to do with comparing Jay-Z and Eminem. I do agree almost everything in this forum is opinion and not fact, but thats to be expected isnt it?
The GOAT comment that has been floated around so carefree was the issue in dispute for me. I cringe when I hear L.L. say it so I have to respond when soemone swears that Em is based on some universal knowledge of music.
Jay is better than Em as an MC. Em does not carry the swagger or speak to the hood the way Em does. Em is on par with Jay as far as writing but that is just one element in being the greatest. As I have stated numerous times his collection of work does not come close to warranting that claim. If this is based on sales and media coverage then I agree 100%. EM is the Goat. I keep asking for the formula they are using so I can understand where they are coming from. Th eresponse I always get is based on listening to the music Em makes better music. That is too broad of an answer for me. If that works for you...great.
I agree that Hov is better, I dont understand what that has to do with reggae and everything else yall arguing about tho lol
You will notice that I did not bring up poetry, basketball or reggae. In his defense he was trying to make a comparison. They were just poor ones. The funny thing is that the cum swallowing that goes on makes me go on the other side. I defend Em believe it or not a lot. Just like cats on here want to say he is God there are cats they say he sucks. He is neither. He is somewhere safely in the middle. He was leaning more towards greatness but his last two albums have taken him a step back.
from 95-2002 - Em was better
from 2002-2005 - Jay was better
and HOPEFULLY from 2006-? Em will come back with mixtape....
and u guys keep sayin they are too different to compare, so just listen to the one song they are on together. I think Em got Jay on that song. And yes Em's best songs are better than Jay's best song and Em's worst songs are worse than Jay's but when Em has a horrible song its on purpose. But when u have a song like "My Words Are Weapons" and verses like that Jay just cant do it, its just not in his talent range.
lol like u wuz bumpin em or jay in 95, lolol
Yall gonna be mad disappointed in that mixtape, not even that it will be bad, but its being over hyped and its merely a fucking mixtape. Eminem aint gonna have more than 3 fucking songs on it, I can almost be certain of that. He has never been the type to sit around cranking out mixtape music, except when he was dissing benzino. Like I said earlier, his music takes too long to make to just throw away. Especially when you can add 3 garbage songs on a greatest hits and sell nearly 3 million records.
c'mon 3 garbage tracks? When I'm Gone was tight. Shake that was average. Fack was unbarable. I'm not really hyped about the mixtape either... I honestly think eminem is out of things to write about.
nope i wasnt...but i can bump all of Em and Jay's shit in 95 right now u fuckin retard, u see THEN i can make a comparison on to who was better. Is that too complicated for you, dont reply to anymore of my posts. Homo.
I love Dead Presidents but I do agree that most of those songs on that list are better.... And beyond that, fuck the raw talent shit.... So since Juice is a better freestyler than Hov, does that mean he's better? And Hov doesn't REALLY freestyle anyway.... He's been caught soooooooo many times sayin' he's "freestyling" on the radio 'n then it ends up on the album.... Or on Da Basement wit Tigga.... If it REALLY was off the top, the verse wouldn't be on the album VERBATIM!
That shit's bullshit... I can't believe people actually believe rappers do that... They just talk shit... Even if you watch Fade the Black movie.... He says he's freestyling the verses but meanwhile, if they were REALLY off the top of the head, how the fuck would he know the dubz 'n adlibs EXACTLY? Any MC that REALLY goes in the studio 'n records would know it's bullshit if they saw that... Cuz if it was really off the top, his timing on the words wouldn't be right because how are you gonna double lines word for word if you had just spit it fresh off the top of the dome.... It's BS...
And beyond that, Em's talent level is higher... I think Hov could sit for 6 months 'n not come out with a Lose Yourself... I'm sorry... If someone sits for 6 years 'n makes the most brilliant car ever created 'n another car company takes 1 year 'n it's pretty good, the person who took 6 years still made the better car..... Em's on another level from ALMOST any MC I've heard in my life when he was in his prime.....
No, it was to clarify you were wrong that he couldn't be the GOAT because he didn't speak to the hood... Proves how obviously DUMB you are...
Once again, 50 Cent must be a better rapper than Eminem because he speaks to the hood more than Em... good job... u're truly a fuckin' imbecile
Ummm, I know NO rappers freestyle. Im just saying, skillwise, Eminem has to force his work, and take months upon months writing sometimes a single song, while it comes natural to Jay. Whether he writes it in his head, or writes it on paper, its more natural. This is a weird thread, at one point its about who has more rap skills, then its about who cranks out the best music, Hov wins both in my opinion.
I agree that quality is quality and dont need a time frame, I was only using that arguement in determining who has more skills, not necessarily who makes better music. I still cannot believe people like songs like quitter better than Dead Presidents though. I am absolutely baffled.
^^^ Quitter's one of the illest diss tracks I've heard in my life... But I prefer Dead Presidents (the original version) over it....
But I disagree on the skill... Em's light years ahead of Hov as far as skill IMO... The music is a lot closer tho'
I love both their music... I think Em's best shit's better.... I rather listen to Em's best three albums over Hov's best three albums.... And I rather listen to Em's "freestyles" (writtens obviously) over Hov's "freestyles"....
Hova's entire career is 20% classic shit and 80% filler. Yeah Hova doesn't really take a long time to write his songs n it shows. Most of his songs he rhymes a bar thats all slick n clever n shit n then he trails off for 5 bars. Em could probably do what Jay does too, but he would simply fade into obscurity as his leash really isn't as long as it would be if he were black or crowned the king of new york. So Em is a workaholic andtakes time to make sure his songs are polished. So What? If anything this should be an argument for him not against him. Hard work deserves alot more of our respect than pure talent (although he definitely doesnt lack in that department neither).
Em is the better emcee than Jay, always will be. But Jay always had that greater "persona".
JAY has just as much natural ability if not more....yes em is an amazing battler, and off the dome he used to be one of the illest, but Jay's rap sheet is just as credible....I mean really, there isnt a eminem lp that can hold a candle to "reasonable dounbt".....imo...when it comes down to who makes better "music", I would think its obvious Jay is the winner....
I cant listen to em's material...it doesnt even sound like real music imo, just a bunch of gimmicks over a beat..dont get me wrong, I understand that all emcees are playing a "role/part" to a certain extent, but em's shit always seemed a hundred percent plastic imo....all that slim shady shit was made up BS to sell records..the most reality u got was when dude was bitching about his mom or girlfriend.....I can barely listen to ss and mmlp, and those are supposed to be his best releases right?....I guess if u prefer spitting/battling/lyricism(in the punchline sense) over substance(not saying Jay was full of depth but he sure did offer alot more depth than ole stand up comedian slim shady did) u'd feel em more, but personally I need to be in touch with the artist as opposed to getting a nice rhyme scheme and some humor in every verse....
But why does good music have to be nonfiction? Why does good music have to be music you relate to? You can go and see movies that are completely fake and you can watch tv shows that have nothing to do with what you do in your life and still like them, so why does rap have to be different? Reasonable Doubt is an awesome album, but
SSLP, MMLP and ES> Reasonable doubt
rap is a genre of music, which is entertainment, whether you find it funny, sad, or interesting.
90 percent of reasonable doubt is about selling crack, which gets pretty old.
Eminem's music overall is just more interesting and entertaining than Jay's, plus his skill is above Jay's, and I've never killed my girlfriend, raped trailer park whores or sold crack.
Its all about good music to me. real or not real.
Separate names with a comma.