Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by TheBigPayback, Jul 12, 2011.
Does Atheism Poison Everything? - C-SPAN Video Library
Hitchens shuts down Religion yet again.
What specific teachings of Jesus' do you believe to be evil or poisonous?
The concept of vicarious redemption is the most repulsive I think and the most central. The concept of throwing your sins on a scapegoat you can have them abolished. Thats a disgusting and immoral doctrine. You cannot relieve people of their responsibility and its immoral to offer to do so and if you could it would be a disgusting action.
Excuse me lemme rephrase the title. Christopher hitchens v a guy defending God
And clarify please.
Jesus was the vessel of salvation from the beginings of creation. He was prepared by God. Essentially God prepared himself to take on the sins of the world in the flesh. Life is but a vapor of time in the eyes of God, the paigns of death are but for a season. Life begins when the seed dies. Our bodies the seed that dies, goes into the ground and life comes from it. As christians we already died with christ an born a new creation from the ressurection like christ. However after him there is no more redemption fir mankind. Which os why this life is so important. It is appointed for man to die once then judgement. No reincarnation, no 70 virgins. No interceding for family members on earth. Everyone has a lifespan an a set time to make a choice. God in his word beseeches us " Chose life" but he cant choose for u. He can help, he can send out workers, he can orchastrate situations to get u to hear the gospel but he cant force heaven on u. Unfortunately there is no center. Its only one or the other. Yet the other u dont understand. Even tho u flirt with it daily. In this choice u get to die twice. Once in flesh and once in spirit but ur soul never dies. There is no good in that place. God has left. All that remains is ur soul, the soul of others (tho u cant interact) ull see them. Ull hear them. Ull smell them youll taste them. But ull be alone. An the evil spirits dont like u. Yet ull belong to them legal property. Even tho God paid with his life to save u an theyll remind u everytime u scoffed, everytime u were told. Everytime u couldve accepted the free gift. But didnt. So depending on where we are on a cosmic timescale ur tormented to judgement. Then u can go ahead and plead your case. The cloud of witnesses, citizens of heaven the witnesses of every act, everything u did behind closed doors, ur thoughts will be on display for everyone to see when u do. Ur motives, ur intent, every word we will be judged by. U can plead ur case to him. See jesus is right now making suplication for us on earth. Hes like our mediator to God. He lived so he knows. He was tempted till he sweat blood so u cant use that excuse. And man is without excuse anyway. We all were citizens of heaven before the seperation. Now we must want to be.
that guy is completely full of shit.
his stance that atheism poisons everything while religion poisons some things is problematic from the get go. he never establishes exactly what the difference between those two positions are; he uses the former to assert that the atrocities carried out by atheistic regimes were due to their atheism, while ignoring all the atheists who don't go out killing and maiming people. then when presented with the challenge that religious regimes carry out the same types of atrocities in the name of god, he rationalizes this with the claim that this is only proof that religion poisons some things. what exactly is the difference? there are good religious men and bad religious men, just as there are good atheists and bad atheists.
the only argument he tries to present tying atheism to inherent evil and destruction is that without a supreme god to dictate what is right and wrong, there is nothing to force people into acting moral. this line of reasoning is immediately debunked by the fact that even with a supreme god in the picture there is still nothing forcing people into acting moral. this is easily demonstrated by all of the so called men of god who he readily admits are capable of the very same evils as godless men. there is even less motivation to act moral when these men are convinced that in committing their atrocities they are in fact doing god's work and have his full support.
the idea that people need to be forced by fear of eternal torture into behaving morally is in fact a thoroughly immoral doctrine from the get go, and supports the very kind of totalitarian dictatorship that he claims to oppose, except on a cosmic scale.
the question that he repeatedly dodged and then claimed had 'no provocative urgency' for him was actually very relevant. the question being: would he rather live in a secular europe or in an islamic europe. the reason he would not answer it is because he has already made his choice by adopting secularism for himself and neglecting to adopt islam, and by choosing to live in a secular country rather than in islamic one. this runs contrary to his entire argument: that people need god to keep them in line and that atheism is the ultimate evil which has essentially ruined europe in the last few centuries.
i don't believe for a second that this man believes what he is saying. if he does, then why does he 'choose to live as a secular jew?' think about that for a second. he believes that there is a supreme god who is the moral compass of the universe yet chooses to live as if he were an atheist. does he want to go to hell, or is he full of shit and exploiting people's gullibility?
Ya i agree on the main topic wasnt addressed much.
This is SO FUCKING STUPID. Is there some sort of chemical imbalance in your brain that stops you from using reason? How can you so easily dismiss reincarnation (written in a book by man) or 70 virgins (written in a book by man)? But eternal salvation in heaven (written in a book by man) is somehow undeniable.
And again you seem to follow the failed logic that an all powerful supreme being knew the outcome of the future but instead of snapping his fingers to protect his creation from evil. He snaps his finger to open up evil's cage so he can test us. So he can test out his Jesus doll. He created us, its your entire argument.
And you say "Man is Without Excuse". To me "Jesus Died For Our Sins" sounds like a pretty massive excuse to be making. It makes it sound like you are laying your sins on another. And that he was prepared before time, makes it sound like Jesus is just a soul rebate coupon.
May I ask if you even watched that video? It basically says the man who claims to know everything is an idiot. You're speaking supernatural magic and claiming to know the exact way the afterlife unfolds like some made for tv movie you saw. And what I'm saying is that I don't know what the afterlife is like. But just cause something is written in a book does in no way validate its own premise. You can't just write something and have it be true. It doesn't work that way. At least it shouldnt be fooling anybody at this point in history.
2000 years ago. Okay. We Get It. Shit was more basic. But look around you. Its entirely possible to pull up a webcam from the complete other side of the world and watch what people are doing. Are we Gods for being able to do so? Should we be looking for untouched tribes so we can get them to look at how cool we are, get some worship started, some material wealth? What would these primitive species have to gain from oil and diamonds? Wouldn't it be stupid of us not to alleviate them of the responsibility to "safely" (within third world codes of course) extract the needed materials for us? Or would it just make us malevolent exploitative douche bags installing our belief systems on others in order to profit from their worship?
And I'd like to say that the phrase "cosmic timescale" is a bit bigger than you're making it out to be. The Earth has only been around for 1/3 the time the universe has been here. Meaning even if The Big Bang was the beginning and not one of many in a infinite loop of growth and destruction and rebirth. That everything possible here on Earth had ample time to grow and develop and extinguish their existence far before we even had electricity going.
ur born with a sinful nature because its in our genes through subsequent generation up to adam. Therefore we are born INTO sin. We have fault because we choose to sin however original sin began in heaven. Day one of creation God seperated that sin from heaven. the light(goodness) and the darkness(evil) were seperated. Its talking about the fall of lucifer and the one third of the angels.
So God knowing that evil would be present amongst man his creation he prepared grace for us before hand.
A relationship with God has nothing to do with material wealth. Ur looking at this through the lens of man. Would it be beneficial for a unkown tribe to know the lord? Yes. Many do. Many worship demons. Vodoo. However these "tribes" interestingly enough still find similar things meaningful as we do. Should say something. Its built into man to seek God. To seek purpose. To seek meaning. When we personally are open enough to truely search it out for ourselves u will find it.
Btw. Mohammad claims he had a vision of Gabriel. an angel. Yet called him the holy spirit. Why. Satan comes as an angels of light. Who did mohammad really see.
Read the bible. Youll find out. They also say hes coming back on a white horse and will reign for 7 years. Again. Check out in the bible see who comes on a white horse proclaiming peace and sets up his throne in the rebuilt temple and calls himself God. Youll find out.
We both will. And I think you will be far more surprised than I.
Doubt it. Ive had my shock of God already
if it's in our genes then it's not exactly a choice, is it
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