DBD's UFC 136 Picks (main card only)

Discussion in 'Overtime: Off-Topic Discussion' started by DirtBagDan, Oct 8, 2011.

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  1. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    Most people who go out and watch UFC fights at the bars probably don't even know what the letters MMA stand for. They more than likely refer to it as cage fighting, and they probably think Fedor and Chuck Liddell are the best ever.

    There are boxing nerds, and basketball nerds, and football nerds, and Kama Sutra nerds, and marijuana nerds, and political nerds, and business nerds, etc. Who cares if some people like to be smart, and analyze what they enjoy? Some people defend this idea that having fun = not looking further into things til the death of them.

    And nationalism is inevitable, sure. But where did you see the UFC intentionally coddling Bisping to further his career in a way that he didn't legitimately earn himself in an attempt to increase a fan base? The guy arguably beat Rashad Evans and Wanderlei, and legimately beat everyone who wasn't named Dan Henderson.

    People fucking hate Bisping anyways, lol. What a weird ass claim. You think GSP was taken care of to increase the market in Canada? :funny:

    You know who's career's have been intentionally inflated? Brock Lesnar, almost every fighter from Pride especially Fedor, and James Toney in a way. The UFC and any other organization wants to make money, they don't care where it comes from.
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  2. Diggles

    Diggles Fred Durst's Life Coach

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    My whole last paragraph was facetious.. I was kidding. I'm not stupid enough to believe that the UFC would build a fighter by fixing matches for the sake of penetrating a new market. Hence the Cro Cop joke.

    My other point is.. you never see a baseball nerd go off like this. Basketball, no.. Hockey, maybes. Lol, its not a criticism, only comment. You need to bring the temperature down homie, wasn't coming sideways at all. I potentially agree with most of what you said, except for the fact that I got textbooks to read as well as your diatribe lol.
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  3. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    I feel ya my dude.

    Sarcasm and facetiousness doesn't read well over the internet unless you lay it down extra thick (twss), you should know this.

    Baseball, Basketball, and Footballs nerds certainly do go off like this too my dude. Probably more so, I've heard baseball, soccer, football, basketball, and hockey nerds go off for hours on end. If I feel like it's too abrasive or opinionated, I go somewhere else.

    I don't see how I came off as bitter my dude, you'll have to forgive me though, after Jest seriously tried to argue that Tom Lawlor is ranked higher than Chael Sonnen and that Fight for the Troops was an event designed to make military fighters more famous, I don't assume anyone is joking, even if it's a silly point :funny:
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  4. Jest Chillin

    Jest Chillin New Member

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    The Gracie's built UFC from concept to it's initial event. GSP built his career before Dana White and the Fertitta's started marketing for HUGE revenue rather than respect in the MMA community. CroCop just makes you look moronic to mention as opposed to trying to be ironic or facetious.

    Instead of just being a smartass.. do some research into UFC entity and keep in mind dates and overall popularity when you consider countering my arguement. 10 years ago, the UFC would NEVER have given a WWE Superstar a contract and Fast Tracked him to a Title Shot. But in 2008, Dana and the Fertitta's had turned the brand (and the sport's rep in the US) around enough to not only do that.. but maintain respect from a rather large portion of their consumers.

    MMA and specifically UFC MMA is no longer a sport where compeition is paramount. It's as profit driven as any other sport now. And that's all you need for bullshit marketing to take precedence.

    Gotta love how I've been out of this thread for who knows how long and yet my name is still being mentioned.

    AND on top of that, I'm still being misquoted. I said Tom Lawlor had a better record than Chael Sonnen. To quote an internet meme... "Y U No Remember My Words?"
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  5. MeanMachine

    MeanMachine New Member

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    damn was Dan right about anything? looool
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  6. Diggles

    Diggles Fred Durst's Life Coach

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    Man, you purists really wanna have your cake and eat it too. "I watched MMA when it was underground." MMA's been heavily disassociated from the stigma of human cock fighting and bar brawling when it was in its initial mainstream penetration to the North American market (even worldwide if you wanna argue that). Its been popularized into a legitimate sport, and yes with that in mind matches are made which yield the greatest fan interest as well as take into account each fighter's respective rank and pecking order.

    And the way you position Brock Lesnar, you give the idea that he had no background in any form of martial arts. He was the 2000 NCAA Heavyweight wrestling champ, and placed second in '99 and two-time Big Ten champ. I dunno, but don't they usually say that wrestlers usually have the best base going into MMA? He had decent enough credentials to get the first look, he won a fight in Hero's/EliteXC [against a no-name, fair enough but at least he didn't look completely lost in the case] and his hype was insurmountable.

    UFC capitalized and now they have the biggest PPV draw in MMA history. Sound like a bad thing? Lol the man just selling out again I suppose.

    As much as it may pain you to understand this, UFC is an organization or in laymen's terms a business... they have shareholders, they want their return and the company has to grow. Interesting fights that are relevant. I'm sure you think guys like Mitrione are ruining the sport as well.
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  7. THE CRUNK GHOST

    THE CRUNK GHOST 3PEATERS

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    for anyone who says lesnar wouldn't be in the ufc back in the day:

    a. it's the heavyweight division. as a rule of thumb, 95% of mma heavyweights are awful

    b. sean gannon lmao
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  8. Diggles

    Diggles Fred Durst's Life Coach

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    ^This. Gannon went onto become champ, right?

    [​IMG]
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  9. Tiger Ty Fan

    Tiger Ty Fan Tiger Circle Blackbelt

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    I know MMA fighters and champions use wrestling base to their success, but ain't no wrestler on the wrestling team is ever going to say he is learning martial arts or call himself a martial artist. Yeah its the oldest fighting style and all that jazz, but it just sounds funny saying Brock has martial arts background before his MMA career.
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  10. Diggles

    Diggles Fred Durst's Life Coach

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    I know, I had trouble calling it that too... but it is technically considered a martial art. =\ didn't know how else to phrase it my brother
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  11. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    Yeah, Wrestling is definitely a martial art. It doesn't matter if it doesn't seem like it's one, because it is one.

    When most people think martial arts they think bowing and karate chops and flying guillotine leglocks and goofy shit that would never work in real life. That's just not the case.

    And people can get mad at Brock Lesnar being a fighter, but he's an extremely powerful and dedicated athlete, and it just so happens he can throw a punch and has some basic submission skills. I love it how people want to act like him beating Frank Mir and Randy Couture aren't significant achievements just because he's a bigger guy. Umm.....it requires an extremely heavy amount of training to attain that kind of size, lol.

    It just boggles my mind that someone who wins and ends fights against champions in such a one-sided fashion can be considered a shitty fighter by so many people. I can understand overrated or over-hyped, but a lot of people flat out call him a bad fighter. People are doing that shit to Jon Jones RIGHT NOW because of his reach, completely disregarding the fact that he is not only an extremely skilled wrestler, but has considerably improved his striking and submissions. Any old random fuck with a long reach or a whole lot of muscle couldn't pull off the shit that these guys do.

    People just want to see people perform some Bruce Lee-esque maneuvers because they think that's how it should be done. The sad thing is, that is EXACTLY the kind of thing Bruce Lee was trying to get people away from.
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  12. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    Yeah, and that's not true either.

    Chael Sonnen has won roughly 68% of his fights and Tom Lawlor has won roughly 63% of his with considerably less difficult opponents I would like to add, not to mention Chael Sonnen has flat out won a higher number of fights. Any way you look at it, Chael Sonnen has a better record than the guy, period.

    Sorry buddy, you are wrong. It's not even a bad opinion, it's misinformation.

    Not that it matters though, because that's not way they determine a number one contender or rankings in general anyways.

    Edit: You want to know who has a better record than all 4 of the people you listed? Michael Bisping.
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  13. Jest Chillin

    Jest Chillin New Member

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    Not only did I not make any statements about "watching MMA when it was underground" but I'm not upset by it being popularized or turning into a business. You're barking up the wrong tree completely. My point in bringing up the history of the sport was to show you how rediculous your statements were regardless of them being sarcastic and to point out the obvious difference in how the Brand is marketed today than it was even just 10 years ago. It's not altogether different from what's happened with Boxing in the last 100 years.

    So to say that it's foolish to think that the UFC wouldn't market and hype fighters to play off their consumer base in order to make more money is just plain foolish.


    The point wasn't about Lesnar at all. That's actually a big part of why I didn't mention his name. The point was about taking an athlete who's most well known for competing in a "Sport" that 85% acting and 15% athletics and fast tracking him to a title shot because of his marketability rather than his skill level.

    Again.. to reinforce my point that it's quite easy to recognize that the UFC is more than willing today to put marketable fighters in advantageous positions that they didn't earn IN the cage.

    Who said anything about ruining the sport? My entire response to you was evidence to support my statement that specific fighters are "pushed" into marketing niche's with the intent of capitalizing on specific demographics and growing the sports popularity in burgeoning markets. I'm completely aware that it's being run as a business. More aware than you are apparently because you can't even recognize the UFC's marketing strategies.

    And the UFC does not have Shareholders. The Fertitta's and Dana own it all. Well actually they own most of it. There's a 4th owner who's a Sheik. That's why they had the even in Dubai awhile back.
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  14. Jest Chillin

    Jest Chillin New Member

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    The first Mir victory and the victory over Couture are looked down upon because he had such an incredible weight advantage that it was pretty rediculous. It's actually one of the reasons why people are saying there should be a Super Heavy division.

    That kind of weight disparity in any other division wouldn't work.. We're talking about two full divisions difference in any other weight class.

    And getting that large does take work.. but it also takes substances. That's why if you look at his physique throughout his career.. you can see the major changes going from College to WWE and then from WWE to UFC. He's no longer on any of those substances but that's also why he looks more like a traditional Strongman rather than a Mr Universe contestant in terms of his physique.

    College:
    [​IMG]

    WWE:
    [​IMG]

    UFC:
    [​IMG]
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  15. Tiger Ty Fan

    Tiger Ty Fan Tiger Circle Blackbelt

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    All I'm saying is the people teaching highschool/college wrestling decades ago were not calling it a martial art. People that were talking about martial arts decades ago probably didn't include highschool/college wrestling.

    But it definitely HAS to be called a martial art nowadays (whether people agree or disagree) because of MMA.
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  16. Tiger Ty Fan

    Tiger Ty Fan Tiger Circle Blackbelt

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    To be fair, we have to give Brock credit for being able to use his physical advantages in his wins. He's like any other fighter where he STILL has to fight well despite however many advantages he has.

    Brock didn't execute against Cain and got fucked up. Anderson didn't execute and got mauled by Sonnen for most of the fight.

    But yeah, 280+ lb Brock vs 240+ lb Mir... Brock obviously deserves his wins but its not hard to understand MMA fans not feeling that weight disparity. Not entirely Brock's fault as most guys his size are not going to get a FREE title shot from the UFC, without being a celebrity athlete.Now we can't have TWO celebrity athletes competing at HW now can we? That's a joke.

    So yeah, Brock deserves his wins because he plain beat his opponents the fuck up. But I will always ridicule UFC for giving a 2-1 HW a title shot.
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  17. THE CRUNK GHOST

    THE CRUNK GHOST 3PEATERS

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    it's the heavyweight division, it's always been a joke

    randy couture won the belt in his 4th fight as well
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  18. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    Truth. This is really the only criticism against Brock that's valid imo, they gave him an extremely premature shot at the title, because he had a shit load of hype behind him. That was dumb. But the fact still remains, he got a shot at the champ, and beat the champ. And Brock's size advantage isn't just some inherent big gorilla gene that puts him at an unfair advantage. First off he needs to make weight like everyone else in the UFC, second off he's big because he goes to the gym works extremely hard and lifts weights, you know, like everyone else in the UFC (Except for Brandon Vera :funny:)

    I don't normally like to have such a matter-of-factly explanation for shit, but people act like Brock's advantage doesn't have everything to do with his extreme work out ethic, and utilization of good genetics the same way Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, and any other naturally big strong guy or guy with long reach has done. It boggles my mind that anyone could try to take that away from him, as if it weren't the result of diligence and hard work. I've said it before, but aside from Frankie Edgar, just about anyone who does well in the sport right now has to have at least a slight genetic advantage, period.

    Cain Velesquez beats everybody as of right now too, I don't see how him losing to Cain is a bad thing.

    And people can say stuff like, "The heavyweight division has always been the butt of a joke in MMA" but some people still consider Fedor the best ever. Hmmm.......
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  19. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    I mean, you're right most wrestling instructors in high school probably forget to mention that it's a martial art, and that's a fallacy on their part as well.

    People aren't considering wrestling a martial art NOW because of MMA, they are considering it a martial art now because they may have been ignorant to it's status as a martial art previously.

    Wrestling is and has been a martial art, there's not a whole lot to agree or disagree with, because by definition, that's what it is. People just haven't been calling that, because when most of society thinks of martial arts they think of eastern culture, bowing, and roundhouse kicks.
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  20. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    Jest, out of curiosity do you have a response to my Tom Lawlor's record vs. Chael Sonnen's record comment?

    Edit: Also are you serious? You think Brock Lesnar was on "substances" too? Do you think Overeem is on steroids?

    Do you not understand how ridiculously unlikely it is for Brock Lesnar to be able to maintain the sheer amount of muscle mass he has now without the use of illegal substances if he had achieved that artificially by substances?

    He has never tested positive, what's your reasoning?
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