Discussion in 'Overtime: Off-Topic Discussion' started by Track 2, Jul 28, 2012.
BTW USA tied w/ China for total medals right now.
China 9 gold
USA 5 gold
I agree with everything you said about nash but you didn't dispute that at no point in his career was he the best player on a team that was going/expected to win the title. steve nash is one of the top fifty or so players of all time but that doesn't change that his play style is complimentary, and that he couldn't shoulder the responsibility of winning the title as the best player on a team. he's finally in his proper complimentary role and the lakers should be phenomenal with him. its something of an abstract quality because i just called him one of the best fifty players ever (and I don't feel that way about Rose) but at the same time Rose is and has been better equipped to be the best player on a championship team. I rank Stockton higher than Gary Payton all time but I don't think there was a conceivable scenario where stockton could've been the best player on a title team and I do think Payton could have done it.
Had LeBron never won a title he absolutely would have faded to Dominique Wilkins/Pete Maravich status over time. perhaps more like Nate Archibald if you knock off the ring with the celtics. plenty of stuff there that's intrinsically worthwhile for being unique, spectacular and memorable but the best players on title teams are who gets remembered historically.
i was the worst of my family and only played one year in college, and even that was community college. stopped playing competitively to work longer. Couldn't give less of a shit about the ethos of a username. none of the nash stats you list are uncommon knowledge. like i said in my last post, give me the year nash had an avenue to win the title that was stopped by means beyond his control. at no point in his career were the suns ever the favorite, and the single biggest reason for that is the best player on a team cannot be a complete and total liability half the time. i love steve nash and i hate describing him like this but you were just like, 'yeah, i think offensive skills make up for his lack of defensive ability' wtf u spend half the game on defense u can't actively suck at anything as big as 'offense' or 'defense' if you're gonna go through a playoffs.
as far as euro goes, talk about barca's victories over the lakers with both teams going similarly deep on the bench. hell, talk about how CSKA rested their relevant players the same way cleveland did. I wasn't even making the point that CSKA could jump into the nba and run for a playoff spot, I was saying international ball is developed and nba talent aren't untouchable macs over there anymore.
china's national team and overall basketball program is not very good. usa never gonna get within sniffing distance of losing to china. but spain, argentina, greece, lithuania, russia and a few other countries field consistently competitive teams, and also other countries are developing quicker than the us improves. i just thought it was funny that you thought the type of borderline nba players they had on the cavs were on such a different level. like i mentioned earlier, never made much headway in official basketball but i've played in leagues/tournaments with several borderline nba dudes that i recognize (marcus williams, james white) and they don't outclass everyone and drop fifty (they are clearly the best tho). as i met more and more people involved in the system of basketball and got more and more into the development aspect of it i realized nba is more about converting scant opportunity than having otherwordly ability that us normal folk can't compare to. bottom players in the league aren't leaps ahead of the rest of us mortals.
please stop doing that capital bold thing tho. makes me take u less seriously cause i think ur over at ur computer all exasperated on rapmusic.
Womens gymnastic team - Gold USA
This year he was easily the best player on his team. Not to say that they were a title contender, but he was scoring 20+ only playing half of the game. But as I said before, it's not a PG's job to shoulder the load of scoring. Sure when the other players aren't hitting shots the PG should lead by example, but otherwise the PG's man responsibility is to get all other players active in the game, something Nash is exceptional at. I'd much rather see a 15 assist Night from Nash than a 30 pt game from Rose.
What point are you even trying to make about Nash not being the best player on a title contender?? Name me one team that's one when their best player/scorer is their PG?? Actually, I'm pretty sure the only time a recent PG won finals MVP was Tony Parker in 07, and I wouldn't say he's the best on his team (Duncan). Excluding Magic & Isaiah Thomas, the only other point guard to ever win finals MVP was Chauncey Billups.
Even those finals MVP weren't because they were the "best" on their team. Magic played with Kareem, Isaiah lucked out & played against an aging Magic & Bird, Tony Parker had Tim Duncan, and Billups team had 4/5 players playing in the all-star game and the last player playing in the olympics.
And China's national basketball program isn't good, yet that had a VERY competitive game 2 nights ago against Spain, who is second best in the tournament? And you're defeating your own point there. Williams & White are there for a reason, they weren't good enough to hack it in the NBA. White is a PHENOMENAL dunker and athlete, but that's all he has. You say they were clearly the best, but they wouldn't have been if an NBA starter on a top 20 NBA team was there. You saw what Marbury and JR did in China, it wouldn't have been very different playing anywhere else, including Spain. I was never saying the bottom players are leaps ahead of good basketball players from other countries, but I would argue that they ARE better.
usa leading olympic medal count. the women holding it down
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