corporate america is thriving

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Radium, Jun 12, 2011.

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  1. Radium

    Radium f k

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    i just rwanted to share this link about us corporations now no longer depending on domestic consumers in america; that they instead are largely thriving on foreign markets.

    what this link talks about is very interesting and is showing probably one of the the most important trends going forward: profits increasing and wages decreasing. thats a paradox - at least, traditionally - but the new model tht corporations are using is making this the new way to go.

    it implicates that a recession is actually manufactured, and a necessary part of increasing profits for corporations.

    read this though, its very important info i think

    as a way to understand the new trends that are going to dominate in the next few years

    Business Is Booming
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  2. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    damn ... looks like rough times ahead my friends.
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  3. Your Idol

    Your Idol ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

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    Obviously demand would be down in a recession.
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  4. Radium

    Radium f k

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    bruh srsly read that link (i know you havent from what you just posted) its really worth it. its not even that long too
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  5. x calibur

    x calibur

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    I've been saying for awhile that outsourcing has had big effects on the overall economy.
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  6. Radium

    Radium f k

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    on society too

    it changes everything from the ground up. for example, gen Z kids right now that are like 10 yrs are going to enter into a very different looking society by the time they are 20 yrs, presuming what the article is implicating remains true to then. everything about entering college, becoming an adult, starting a family changes for them.

    its going to be interesting to look at birth rates and wage rates and these types of things to see the effects on society post 2008 recession, which might have been the start of the new america.
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  7. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    it's not just effecting genz kids it's effecting the dynamics between man and woman RIGHT NOW...

    just the slight change creates a huge difference in a year time..

    the government want's to keep society in order by keeping them from any power (money)

    other-wise what will we need the government and law force for when we can afford to hire our own security with they own gun's? and we can afford to control the economy thus dispelling the need for judicial system when i own and operate the water co. u do me wrong or dont pay, u dont get water.. etc..

    that's what would happen if normal people like us had power to protect and serve our selfs..

    they'd have no position..
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  8. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    so if the corporations are becoming independent from the american worker/consumer, what i wonder is how can the american worker/consumer become independent from the corporations?
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  9. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

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    Ra, what would you describe your stance on economics as? And politics while you're at it...
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  10. Radium

    Radium f k

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    thats a really interesting take. as i understand it you mean to be implying that there might be a way to get off the corporate grid so to speak. i know that today, its very hard to start up a business, and that you basically must jump through fire in the form of taxes and fees and regulations and restrictions on every level.

    i have heard some other things though...

    there was this thing i was reading about how this group formed (i think in utah) recently this year that would do trade and exchange w each other under their own unique currency system ( i think it actually was gold, specifically)

    i wish i could find the link right now but i'll try to look for it

    but that on a larger scale would be going way way off the corporate grid. i highly doubt activity like this would even be allowed as independent currencies are highly threatening for any government and its ability to control populations for obvious reasons: it creates autonomy. eg imagine a whole county and then maybe even a whole state becoming autonomous

    there are some other things that can be done though. i proposed a while ago about creatinhg some form of sustainable housing. i think this lessens the cost of living and could possibly act as a counter balance to this now reduced job outlook going forward. also i know there are some community garden groups that people participate in for free. the food that they grow is then distributed out to the local community for free. something like this is part of the same group of adjustments intended to ultimately bring down the cost of living. i would reaaly like to see this in more places. i think things like this are actually pretty realistic.

    basically to sum these views up there are two distinct ways to adjust to what these corporations are trying to now do: create autonomy on some level through starting up new businesses or even exchange systems if even feasible; or trying to find different ways to creatively bring down the cost of living so that one can earn less wages yet still live effectively
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  11. Radium

    Radium f k

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    um i dont know. i dont really have stances for these things ideologically, if thats what youre really askting.
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  12. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

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    But I think you must have. I'm not saying you fall rigidly into this category or that, but you must be able to broadly categorise your beliefs.

    It's not a trick question. I've seen you posting more and more about economics so was just interested. I was then gonna ask you to recommend some reading.
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  13. Radium

    Radium f k

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    im not an expert on economics and its actuially sort of confusing to me. i dont know much about it other than its premise: its a system of exchange.
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  14. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

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  15. Radium

    Radium f k

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    it aint working for america, so you have to summarize it. its says on the bottom that something like outsousring labor is ultimately a good thing. i disagree w that so you have my interest.
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  16. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    to be perfectly honest i posed the question more wondering if it were possible than implying that it is.

    i was just thinking that any discussion on globalization or outsourcing is usually focused around how to get the jobs that we used to have but are now losing to countries with lower standards, back into the hands of us citizens who are paid a livable wage.

    from my experience when i ask this question, there are usually one of two possible answers that will follow, depending on the political perspective of the individual in question.

    the first answer is that we should penalize companies that outsource labor or production to other countries. force them to pay a tariff or a tax of some sort to make up for the loss. the downside to this, some others suggest, is that this bogs down the economy more than it helps us in the long run and can turn an already bad situation into a total disaster. an added complication with this arises if our corporations are now increasingly marketing to consumers outside our economy, as your article suggests.

    the second answer given, from pretty much the complete opposite p.o.v. as the first, is that we should embrace lower taxes/regulations to make doing business here less expensive and more profitable in order to entice our companies to return home. the problem with this of course is that to compete with slave labor from the third world we have to adopt much lower standards than we are accustomed to which pretty much defeats the purpose of even trying to get these jobs back in the first place.

    so maybe we have no choice but to accept the loss of those jobs and instead of wondering how we can return to a past ideal that no longer exists, we must instead start looking at new ways to make a buck.

    there are some who do advocate for the use of competing, private based currencies which could counter balance eachother in value to help discourage over-printing which leads to inflation.

    Ron Paul's Competing Currencies by Peter Brimelow

    i think ron paul and his ilk are generally more in favor of expanding corporate and private power as a means of lessening the influence of the federal government rather than provide any means for the common worker to 'get off the corporate grid,' but it is an interesting premise to consider.

    yea.. i've seen those community gardens before. i like the housing idea but i would be really surprised to see it gain the necessary political momentum in today's political and economic climate. socialism is a dirty word in this country.. judging by how people reacted to the whole 'obamacare' fiasco, i can imagine pretty well how i think any proposal that the govt start giving out houses or fertile land would go down. but it is an interesting premise as well, i don't want to be too cynical..

    in considering all this i'm reminded of another ideology i want to share with you called distributism, which as far as i can tell is sort of a catholic spin off of socialism. basically distributists suggest that it is a moral imperative that the means of production are as widely distributed as possible.
    Bill Powell: Capitalist? Socialist? Distributist.

    this article helps highlight a practical alternative to corporations in its segment on co-ops:
    another interesting discussion i found on the concept deals with some of the parallels between distributist thinking and the single tax philosophy of henry george, and how these two ideas could compliment eachother in a practical sense. if you're not familiar with george's single tax idea, a brief description can be found here.
    The Distributist Review: Distributism and Henry George
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  17. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    i don't really believe there is any such system that can fairly distribute the means of production to all families, but i like the way these people think because they see the value in considering the human element which is seemingly lost on most capitalists, while still acknowledging capitalism as the most efficient system around for creating wealth. that's essentially the way i feel as well.
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  18. Radium

    Radium f k

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    LOL reg im out right now you caught me just as i was about to leave the house. im going to read what you posted later tonight tho.
    peace
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  19. Radium

    Radium f k

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    alright my bad

    yeah this is the way i see things too. a huge difficulty to anything in economics (and any soft science) is in how imperfect our knowledge is about it. i think there is a stage that you get to that nobody can do anything except make a good guess. so even if you could make a strong case (a good guess) against outsourcing, it could be negatedby some other guess too. so it seems largely for economics that whoever has the biggest voice gets to make up the rules as they go along. i guess thats the reality, and starting from that, your conclusion i think is ultimately the right conclusion to make.


    ive never heard of distributism before, and i think i sort of have a handle on its premise now, but what are its applications? for example, it seems to be a way to allow more producers in society. am i right about this? my quick reaction to that is how are other producers supposed compete w big corporations as an alternative as far as costs and things like that. ex: if you can buy a pair of socks from walmart at half the price vs your neighbor's modest sock company it would very hard for your neighbor to justify starting up his own sock company. this i guess would be the big thing.

    but tell me if i have this right: youre suggesting a trend towards more localized/specialized economic systems (more small businesses) vs larger/generalized systems (big businesses) and distributism is a way to push more towards that way
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  20. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

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    That is basically what it argues which is why I thought it'd be of interest. I probably won't do a very good job of summarising, but:

    (Keep in mind that it was very much focused on manufactoring and outsourcing from a British perspective)

    -Despite all the outsourcing and what people think, Britain is still the 7th largest manufacturer in the world

    -As the world changed, Britain outsourced the 'lower' manufacturing jobs that didn't make as much economic sense (clothes, etc) while retaining high end manufacturing such as military aircraft, etc.

    -Although countries like China produce massive amounts, much more than Britain, it's cheap stuff that doesn't produce anywhere near as much money. The money that Britain receives for things like cars and technology is higher (off memory, I think it was more but it could be about equal).

    -As factories become more effecient, jobs always decrease as a result. In the past this has meant creating/finding new jobs, and so outsourcing doesn't make too much difference in this regard. The obvious problem is if the amount of jobs being outsourced *****ly outstrips the amount of new jobs being created.

    -The influence of overseas investors (Japan, etc) into the critical British car industry in the '70s/'80s replenished it and allowed it to flourish.

    -One of the reasons Britain manufactures expensive products is because we have a system of, for example, universities that produce world class designers. Countries like China that do most of the world's manufacturing do so because for a lot of the population that's all they can do.

    -The fact that Britain produces high quality products that can't be mass produces means we can continue to charge high prices on the world market because it can't be mass produced.

    -The real problem is people buying too many imports on the mass market. It means that, as a society, we save less and less, which means that banks have less to loan manufacturing companies, which means more borrowing. As a result there is more spending than exporting but not, the programme argues, primarily because of outsourcing.

    There's probably stuff I'm forgetting, maybe misinterpreting and not doing full justice to the argument. I'm only really just getting into economics, but I found it quite convincing.
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