Christianity is not Logical

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Con.Found.Dead, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Luke 24:44-45, "Now He said to them, 'These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.' 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures."
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  2. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    You're right on all counts. I was attempting to neatly gloss over the subject of cannon as it's history is super complicated while taking advantage of the fact that it's not highly debated within protestantism.

    Still...I'm grateful you said this as to not give me an easy out.
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  3. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    So...Jesus...God Himself...opened the disciples minds after they had, probably, spent their entire lives memorizing it?

    Interesting.
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  4. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Bro you just got done saying you believe the bible to be inspired.
    the bible itself describes it as God breathed. So is it just a book? What other book you know to be God-breathed.

    1. "Thus says the Lord" occurs over 400 times in the Old Testament.
    2. "God said" occurs 42 times in the Old Testament and four times in the New Testament.
    3. "God spoke" occurs 9 times in the Old Testament and 3 times in the New Testament.
    4. "The Spirit of the Lord spoke" through people in 2 Sam. 23:2; 1 Kings 22:24; 2 Chron. 20:14.

    2 Tim. 3:16-17 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

    on the council of nicea
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  5. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    I'm letting the issue of canon and council go because, as M-Theory pointed out, it is hardly a "simple" topic and I clearly need to brush up on my councils.

    Also, I'd ask that you refrain from copying and pasting from websites like CARM (which you've essentially based your enitre argument off of). Not because they aren't helpful but, rather, I'd like to hear YOUR thoughts on the manner, not Matt Slick's.

    As to my thoughts about scriptural inherency/infallibility, it's a conversation we can have privately and I believe they're irrelevant to the question of whether Christianity is logical, or not. Opinions on the subject are based on interpretation of the book, itself, but Christians who do disagree on the subject both believe Jesus is who He said He was and follow His teachings. That is what makes them Christian, yes?

    I suppose I should just ask you the question then: Why do you believe Christianity is logical?
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  6. Al .EX. Tremo

    Al .EX. Tremo New Member

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    I have to agree with the thread starter. I mean religion in general is steeped in speculation and uncertainty. How can you believe in something with no physical proof? How can you say a god has existed forever but matter couldn't? I don't understand Religious beliefs in the slightest, though i respect them.
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  7. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Well I believe everything in the bible has a logical basis.
    the bible itself says to be ready to give a reason in defense of the faith.
    and generally what ive found is once I begin to really research a topic a very understandable reason starts to emerge for why things happened the way the did, how it happened, what happened.

    like i said before the mystery is in our understanding and knowledge of the topic for the most part

    God likes to reveal the truth in the scriptures tp people who dilligently seek. mystery doesnt play a big part imo.
    even things like miracles many times can be explained
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  8. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    [​IMG]
    the mystery seems to lay in the semantics, if only everyone could agree upon definitions first
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  9. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Pretty much.
    the problem is that christians are extremely loyal to their beliefs.
    they also do a lot of assuming.

    like assuming because the bible mentions 6 days of creation that
    that means the earth has to be young.

    but theres a whole backstory prior to the days of creation.

    problems also lye in translation
    most christians dont do word studies and things but that provides a more accurate picture when we know what the word was originally in context
    and culture.
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  10. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Actually, I have to contradict myself on one point. The first time anyone sat down to say anything (in writing), as far as we know, about which books should be in the New Testament was in 367 (not earlier than 325, obviously). It was Athanasius of Alexandria, who listed the 27 books; and what the NT canon would look like would continue to be debated. So it was actually decades after the Council of Nicea that people even began speaking of canonical issues.
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  11. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    Like @Sir Bustalot said, a lot of what we disagree on, in this subject, is probably based on differing ideas of what "logical" and "reasonable" are. I do believe Christianity to be reasonable in as much as one can point to the history of the Jewish people; look at what Jesus said, and then go on from there. In theology, we reason about particular doctrines all the time. And, as you said, Christians tend to hold onto their doctrines and beliefs tightly.

    To be "logical," I believe, is different for all the reasons I've stated previously. To believe what Jesus said is very much a reasonable practice when you take into consideration all of our assumptions about the Old and New Testaments. There will always be elements of His story, however, with no physical evidence. Virgin birth from the Holy Spirit? That the guy who claimed to be God, and the Son of God, somehow atoned for this thing called sin? Sure, there are witnesses to His resurrection and ascension; but there are other, seemingly more "human" possibilities that seem plausible then the story presented in the Gospels and Acts.

    I don't think this is a bad thing, though. In fact, I believe it's designed this way. Just as Jesus spoke in parables in order to ensure that only those with "ears" could hear, faith, received from the Holy Spirit, does the work in our hearts and minds.
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  12. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    There is a logical reason to believe Jesus to be the Son of God though because prophecy. He fulfilled it.

    However: That's an internal logical system, not external. Which means you're both right.
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  13. FeedMeMore

    FeedMeMore Moderator

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    Do you believe in emotions and relationship. Phsyical proof for everything is a very narrow view

    Christians aren't the only ones to hold to views tightly. People act like atheists are these open minded creatures willing to accept information that goes against there belief system
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