Christianity is not Logical

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Con.Found.Dead, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    I am also familiar with their material. Having graduated Bible College, I've seen and heard many of their arguments first hand. I appreciate their efforts but I find myself disagreeing with them often. Very often, in fact, in matters of theology.
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  2. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    as an outsider it's kind of strange to see christians resisting this idea so much. what does it even mean to have 'faith' if everything about a belief is substantiated by logic and evidence.
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  3. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    What seminary did u attend?
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  4. Twamp

    Twamp proper weaponry

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  5. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    Not seminary, Bible College. I am taking the year off of school before going back. I'd like to go to Multnomah, in Portland, though.
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  6. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Why go to bible school if you dont. and never intend not to believe the bible.
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  7. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    But heres the issue w this topic.
    the knowldge of who he is is vailed throughout the bible.


    meaning its not completely straightforward, Jesus never comes right out an says listen up pricks im God
    but he does make it known who he is.

    This is clearly defined thru scripture

    Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


    all his references are intentionally vailed.

    So only the ones that seek find .

    Keep seeking.
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  8. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    I believe the dichotomy you've set up between faith, and "believing the Bible" isn't necessary (Hebrews 11).

    Knowing everything I do about the formation of the cannon, the questions of authorship to particular books within the cannon, the political nonsense surrounding the Council of Nicea in 325 when they formed the cannon and created the Nicene creed, FORCES me to have faith that the Bible is, in fact, inspired.
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  9. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    JIf u have faith the bible is in fact inspired, why would u assume its lying.

    Honestly im trying to understand here.

    but on the topic of Jesus/God.

    The bible says everything we see was created by Christ. He is the word that u claim to have faith in.

    In the begining was the WORD, and the word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD.

    Great is the mystery if godliness.

    he made HIMSELF, a little lower than the angels.

    Christ is the embodyment of the word of God, lived out.

    you cant seperate God from his word.
    like you cant seperate God from his spirit.

    similar to ourselves. you are a spirit being that possesses a soul and lives in a body to interact with this physical realm. Same deal here.
    its just different forms of God. ive used this example before but water can be liquid, it can be steam, or it can be ice.
    but its all water just different forms.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
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  10. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    Where did I ever say, or give the impression, that the Bible is deceptive? It is a collection of writings from many different authors, with many different faith backgrounds, all writing bearing witness to the one they know as God. I'm not going to believe the writings of Paul, John, David, Moses, or Peter because its in a book my parents and pastors believed to be infallible, or inerrant. I'm going to trust that Scripture is inspired by God, not because Paul tells Timothy that the OT is but, because the Spirit says I can. My faith is, ultimately, in the Triune-God, not scripture.

    Also, where in the cannon does it ever attribute itself as the Word of God? The Bible is not, theologically speaking, the living, breathing Word. Jesus is NOT the embodiment of the Word, He IS the Word. The Bible is a word. Not once, in any OT prophecy or NT letter does the cannon ever refer to itself as the Word.

    The imagery of liquid, steam, and ice you used to describe the Trinity is actually modalism. While it translates their equality of substance (co-equal) it fails to take into account they exist co-eternally (meaning, at the same time).
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  11. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    What? You said to believe jesus is God is not logical. but if u believe in a triune God. then you believe that Jesus is God. so whats the issue.

    maybe i jumped in late and mistook your position.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
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  12. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    And yes Jesus is the word

    the bible is the word of God

    Matt 15:6, "he is not to honor his father or his mother. And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition." Mark 7:13, "thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.” John 10:35 “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken)."
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
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  13. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Thats true as well but i like it for explaining the essence of how God can be three distinct persons and still be one
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  14. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    Don't ever use it if you are actually trying to explain the Trinity. In fact, here are a list I've heard that are just awful:

    1. God is like water
    2. God is like a three leaf clover
    3. God is like an Egg
    4. God is like a body, spirit, and soul


    Where does it ever say that about itself?
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  15. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    My argument is that Christianity isn't logical. I am a Christian because of faith...not logic.
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  16. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    [quote="Con.Found.Dead]
    Where does it ever say that about itself?[/quote]Matt 15:6, "he is not to honor his father or his mother. And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition." Mark 7:13, "thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.” John 10:35 “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken)."
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  17. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Sure. But if it is true then the things contained within the bible will show themselves to be true. Whether we know it yet or not or see it fully yet or not, or understand it completely or not.
    Our ignorance is the only gap in the logic of all truth.
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  18. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    The word used is entolē. Also translated: commandments

    The word used is théos. It's the equivalent of saying something is from God. That is the reason why word is left lower case in this instance. Besides, it cannot be referring to the Bible as the cannon doesn't form for another 300 some odd years.


    John is a good case since the author uses the same word, logos for both John 1 and what essentially is Jesus declaring his deity (which is John's real aim). Again, I would say that word has been left lower case for a reason and would agree with the interpreters for doing so as its use is similar to that of the example you used for théos.




    Really, all of this is moot. The Bible isn't even formed until nearly 300 years after his reported death.
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  19. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Much of the canon was formed earlier than 325, and the canon was not one of the issues at the Council of Nicea. There are way too many myths out there concerning the CoN, including the idea the the canon was settled on there. Actually the canon has never truly been settled on which is reflected in the fact that different Christian groups have different number of books they consider canonical.
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  20. Con.Found.Dead

    Con.Found.Dead Active Member

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    I disagree wholeheartedly on every count. "Our ignorance is the only gap in the logic of all truth?" Science says the same thing about itself.

    Either way, the Bible can never show itself to be true because it's merely a book. The Holy Spirit reveals the truth (John 16:13). Because of this, I can say there is not a thing I know, or understand, about the Triune-God that God hasn't revealed to me, Himself.
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