Birth of Monotheism

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Yahunyahti, May 1, 2007.

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  1. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Jews, Christians AND Muslims claim that Abraham was the first Monotheist. This is a lie. Abraham was from Ur and all the people of Ur were Zoroastrians. That is why "Fire" played such a huge role in Abraham's encounters with what he called "God."
    Abraham also worshiped Moloch and that is why he was going to sacrifice his son (Jews say Isaac and Muslims say Ishmael) to Moloch on the mountain in Salem (the location of the Altar of Moloch during Abraham's time). Moloch was a Canaanite God who was also known as "El" or "Eloah" (Allah in Arabic).

    In truth, the Pharaoh Akhenaten was the first Monotheist. He called the One true creator of all things "Aten."

    From the book "Osiris: Death and Afterlife of a God" by Bojana Mojsov (Chapter 7)

    "The new pharaoh introduced Monotheism to the history of religion. It had such a profound effect on religious thought that it became impossible to return to the old ways without attempting a reformation. Religious doctrines developed during this reformation reinvigorated Egyptian religion and gave impetus to ideas that later flourished in Greco-Roman Egypt and eventually influenced the rise of Christianity.

    In 1352 BC, when he ascended the throne of Egypt, Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten) was already a man with a vision. Somewhere in the open courts of his father's palace he had a revelation. God had spoken to him. He had shown himself as One, mother and father, creator of all. Amenhotep was transformed. The path had been chosen for him. He wrote poetry, inspired by the voice he heard:

    Splendid you rise, O, livin Aten, eternal lord,
    you are radiant, beauteous, mighty,
    your love is great, immense.
    Your rays light up all faces,
    your bright hue gives life to hearts,
    when you fill the Two Lands (Upper and Lower Egypt) with your love.
    August god (Leo/Virgo Sphinx) who fashioned himself,
    who made every land, created what is in it,
    all people, herds, and flocks,
    all trees that grow from the soil.
    They live when you dawn (rise) for them,
    you are the mother and father of all you made . . .
    You are One, yet a million lives are in you. ​

    The god was Aten and Akhenaten was his messenger. In Egyptian tradition, Aten was the sun disk, one of the aspects of the sun-god. Yet, to the new king, the particular manifestation had become more important (to the earth) than any other. "


    This was NOT "Sun-Worship" . . .
    The Egyptians already worshipped the Sun. Akhenaten said that Aten was greater than the sun but that for the Earth the Sun was Aten's greatest and most significant manifestation and that ALL life (on earth) thrived because of its rays.
    He was correct.

    Akhenaten was the original Buddha-Figure.
    Akhenaten was the original Christ/Messiah-Figure.
    Akhenaten was the original Monotheist.

    Moses (ThutMOSIS) was not.
    Judaism, Christianity AND Islam all depend upon Moses (ThutMOSIS) being a real person and Abraham being the first Monotheist. These religions have been historically proven wrong through Akhenaten.

    Akhenaten and his wife Queen Nefertiti were the original Monotheists.
    They ruled for 18 years in Egypt together BOTH as King and Queen Pharaoh.
    Her word was as valid as his.
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  2. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    [​IMG]
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    Tutankhamen (Tutankhaten) was their son:

    [​IMG]
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  3. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    You do know Aten was Akhenaten monotheistic deity which he forced his people to woriship? And if they were caught worshiping other deities they were Killed. Did you also know Tutankhamen changed that monotheism belief in that deity back to the theistic beliefs of deities? The Whole monotheism belief pissed off the egyptian Civilization. So being advised Politically by close generals and other political figures who were unhappy with the Monotheistic belief themselves Tutankhamen was basically swayed to return to retrospective theistic beliefs Because that deity system political worked out better during that time.

    It was the Monotheistic belief in SUN WORSHIP.
    He basically made the SUN, NUMERO UNO, and discarded
    the other deities of the time. Ra was actually that Top deity.
    but then the original apsect of ra became aten after ("Akhenaten") assumed power. All other dieities were discarded to give Akhenaten Demigod status. Making himself demigod was suppose to be a savvy powerful political move, But ended up back firing.
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  4. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Yes, as Pharaoh he threw out all of the various cults in Egypt which worshiped animals such as Cows, Dogs, Falcons, Etc. He had the name of "Amon Ra" (Amen Ra) scratched off of every place that it was written and he even tore down statues that people believed would come alive at night. He banned talismans, magic and did away with the corrupt priesthood (similar to modern day Roman Catholic Church and told people that Aton was available to ALL people and that Aton did not need these meaningless statues, talismans or priests.

    He opened worship up to the individuals and told them for the first time that they didn't need a mediator. He built a new city and the entire city dwelt in peace. Those who would not accept Aton and continued worshiping idols simply received no help from him. He would not extend his hand to people who worshiped statues and stones, animals and physical objects.


    Menaz, don't make shit up. I've studied Ancient Egypt since I was 7 years old. You've probably read a couple bullshit websites. He never killed anybody. Aton Worship was worship of the sanctity of life and he was against violence and war.
    The reason Egypt was losing its power under his rule is because he refused to fight the Hittites and signed peace treaties (which have been documented) with their King, even though Egypt was much stronger.

    He was trying to do away with false worship.
    If you lived in Egypt prior to Akhenaten, you would have hated it. There were just as many cults in Ancient Egypt as there are religions in the world today and they all fought with one another on a regular basis. He did away with that and created the first form of Monotheism known to the earth.


    Wrong.

    Tutankhamen did not change anything. That is why he was killed. On the back of Tutankhamen's Throne was a portrait of Tut and his Young Wife underneath the Aten. AFTER Tut was murdered by Aye, Tut's wife tried to unite the Hittites with Egypt by calling for a Prince to be sent. He was sent and he was killed and so was Tut's wife, by Aye (who denied it). Afterward a war broke out between the Hittites and the Egyptians. Then the priests went back into power and the religion of truth was repressed for the first time. It was similar to Science being fought by dogmatic (meaningless) nonsense religions today. You should be in support of Aton. Aton was the same as the Tao and the Won and other forms of the Totality.

    Just like Science is pissing off Religious Civilizations around the world, right now in making their claims. You of all people should realize that if you speak against lies, you will piss people off. Akhenaten told people that Egypt would no longer be controlled and ruled by the Corrupt Priests of the various different cults.

    Wrong, your website (google sources/wiki journalists) don't know what they're talking about. When he died, his name was Tutankhaten. After his death, they scratched off the Aten and replaced it with Amen:

    Here is a picture of Tut's Throne: (Notice him and his wife are underneath the Aton?) Also note the Lions heads. Tut was from the Tribe of JUDAH (the real Judah) and that is why there are Lion's heads on his throne)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    And here is Akhenaten with his wife Neferiti, underneath the Aton:
    [​IMG]
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  5. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Please don't pretend you know about Ancient Egypt too. I've spent almost 20 years researching these subjects and you've googled a few articles. It really is annoying when you talk about subjects that you don't know anything about and you pretend that you do. You are not informing me of anything I haven't already read on this subject. This irritates the shit out of me. I tell you about something, you google it and then you try to pretend you told me about it. Just stop and admit when you don't know something.

    I don't know anything about Nemes and Memes.
    I've read Dawkins books but the stuff don't make sense to me.
    Perhaps it does make sense to you, I don't know.
    But I'm not going to try to tell you about Science.
    I'm not a Scientist. I'm a Philosopher.
    If you want to study science, then be a scientist.
    If you want to be a philosopher, then be a philosopher.
    But you can't be everything.


    No, it was not Sun Worship. Sun Worship already existed throughout Egyptian cults. Until 1997 they believed it was Sun worship because it was a huge disk in the sky. In 1997 they discovered tablets that made it VERY clear that Aton was NOT being worshiped, but the LIFE ENERGY that the Aton provided was being praised. It was the Chi or the Life that was praised and Akhenaten's poem made that very clear with the last line:

    "You are One, yet a million lives are in you."



    If he was praising the sun, this wouldn't make sense. You cannot be "IN" the sun.
    Also, if you notice . . . in the hands coming from the Aton there are Ankhs. The Ankh is a cross which represents LIFE. They were praising Life and for Akhenaten, the Sun was the greatest manifestation of Aton. BUT, it was not Aton. It was simply the greatest manifestation. He praised the Sun because it provides ALL of the earth with life. Without the sun, nothing exists. He was right.


    He didn't have to make himself anything. He was Pharaoh and Pharaoh's title was "Son of God". . .

    The cults survived, but so did Akhenaten's religion.
    Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all products of the Cults infiltrating the teaching of the Aton. That is why they all say "Amen" at the end of their prayers. This is the battle that has been going on for 3,000 years. Buddhism and Taoism both come from Akhenaten and that is why Buddha and Lao Tzu are always shown with the Sun Disk behind their heads:

    [​IMG]
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    People even began making statues of Krishna with the sun disk behind him because of Akhenaten's influential religion.
    [​IMG]


    It's because of Akhenaten's Aton that Jesus is now painted with a Sun behind his head:
    [​IMG]




    He taught a religionless religion. He taught a religion of LIFE based on LIGHT.
    All of the other cults worshiped darkness. The modern religions are all offspring of the cults, but they've borrowed elements of the Aton in order to maintain their power. The priesthood is what Akhenaten was trying to destroy in Egypt. He was trying to teach people that they don't need mediators between themselves and the Divine because the Divine is within them and comes to them in life, which itself comes through the Sun.

    Akhenaten's poems which have been discovered reveal that.
    The man was a King, Prophet, Poet, Husband, Father and Nefertiti was the Queen.
    Akhenaten brought poetry to the Egyptians through a new form of writing.
    Akhenaten brought the people out of the darkness of the temples and into the light. He built the city and filled it with Palm Trees, Gardens and was the FIRST and ONLY Pharaoh to portray himself and his wife as they actually looked, sometimes even nude . . . playing with their children or kissing one another. He brought life to Ancient Egypt. After Akhenaten's reign and Tut's murder, Egypt fell apart.

    Encyclopedias still portray it as Sun Worship because their information is not up to date.

    [​IMG]




    The cults worshiped Death, Osiris and Amon Ra (The Afterlife).
    Akhenaten brought the people the Aton (Present/True Life).
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  6. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    You, of all people, should highly respect this man from 3,350 years ago.

    His religion was the first true Science.
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  7. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    There is nothing to argue here. And Please stop pretending you know everything. 20 years? How old are you? 24-25? LOL! If you call the book of the dead and a history degree a few articals... Ok than Mr. assumption. Why wouldn't I know about this? Why wouldn't anyone know about this? why can only you know about this? You're logic is stupid considering the fact i've been in many egyptian discussions. I thought the whole point of you posting this was for people to drop a reply. I didn't google a thing. Stop making those ad hominem fallacies about me or start providing evidence. You won't find evidence though because I'm not doing it. However, You google, even your pictures are googled, I wouldn't be surpised if half the conversations I have with you come from Google/wikipedia. You're known for it.

    What does Dawkins have to do with this MOTHERFUCKING conversation?
    I know you know nothing about memes. You're also far from a philosopher in my book. I can be whatever I want to be. However, here I'm only Stating the fucking historical relevance. You're the one trying to force a philosophical debate.





    Wrong, it was the new aspect of sun worship. Correct. Sun worship already existed, but not as one deity, aton was that monotheistic Sun worshipped deity. Moses stopped sun worship all together. That last line doesn't prove anything other than you take everything literal. Aton praised the one sun as over everything... One sun shelters millions of lives.

    If you take it literally it doesn't make sense. if you take it figuratively it makes perfect sense. Aton was the new aspect of sun worship. The sun overhead was believed to be powered by the same energy source as consciousness. This source was personified in the deity of Re and his many forms. Aton was elevated to supreme deity by Ikhnaton, who was the only true "sun worshipper" in the sense that this is understood today. The children of the sun knew that the world was animated by the solar light, but this was seen as a force of nature, mysterious and profound, not as a personification of the ultimate, monotheistic divine.

    I'm telling you're wrong it has nothing to do with Monotheistic divinity.
    That is where moses comes in.


    I don't deny he was Poetic, king, husband, father,demigod, or that nefertiti was the queen. I don't deny he built cities, or filled it with palm trees, I don't deny he artisitically protrayed himself either. I also don't deny Aton made alot of propaganda art in his day.

    Tut was not murdered... The theory has changed. The new accepted theory is he fell off his moving Chariot while trying to shoot a bow and arrow at targets. The wheel crush his leg causing a compound fracture. (meaning he was driving alone and shooting a bow and arrow at the same time.) Either A.) the Shock killed him B.) Infection. or C.) both. Even though Egypt was known for it's advanced Medicines the wound was too severe. ( this is backed up by tut's X-rays.) Infact, AY tut's prime minister took over after tut's death. And there is no evidence that Ay killed tut, but Ay did use his power of age to sway tut to revert back to theistic beliefs in many deities. This made the Egyptian society happy again. Thus, tut politically pleased everyone.




    Obviously you need it. I don't need google. I didn't have to look any thing up. I already know what I am talking about.
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  8. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Menaz, you don't know what you're talking about. That's all there is to it. I'm not debating this with you. You're wrong.

    Aton was represented through the Sun Disk. It was "not" sun worship. It was "Life Worship" and this was made very clear when Akhenaten called it "Pa-Aten'ankh" which was pronounced "Pay-Yati-Ankh" and meant "The Disk Light of Life."

    It was Life that was being worshiped by Akhenaten and not the Sun itself.
    That is why the Ankh is beings dropped down to them from the sun. Prior to Akhenaten, the cults worshiped Osiris (god of the underworld) and prayed in dark temples.

    In the book "Remembering Osiris" by Tom Hare it is written:
    "The god of Amarna is, indeed, so impersonal that it was difficult to characterize correctly or appropriately in figural terms; thus, it is INCORRECT not only to call the god "Aten" (Yati) as we have just pointed out, but also to conceive of it as the SUN DISK, even though one draws such a conclusion readily from the reliefs of the Amarna period. As Assmann notes: 'The cosmic god is life itself, in light and time, and personal devotion to it is just as unthinkable as the opposite. The piety of the individual can make itself manifest and differenciate itself, then, only with regard to the king . . . whereas god quite simply is life itself, flourishing, growth, continued existence, and passing away.'"

    I don't get my sources from google. But, you clearly do. Anybody who considers Akhenaten's God Aton to be nothing more than the Sun itself and his religion to be Sun-Worship, is ignorant. I use pictures from google. I don't get my information from them. Unlike you, I read the books that I claim to have read. I don't pretend online for poops and chuckles.

    As for studying "ALMOST" 20 years . . . yes, I have.
    I began studying Egyptian History at 7 years old and am now 25.
    That is 18 years. 18 years is "almost" 20 years.
    "Almost" 20 years is how I worded it.

    Stop getting your sources from google and stop accusing me of doing what you do when it is so absolutely clear that I don't. I have read Dawkins books. I read them after you claimed to have read them in order to see if what you were saying what true, and it wasn't. Dawkins said nothing about the Tao in ANY of his books and he supports Buddhism in "The God Delusion" and you clearly said that Dawkins rejects Buddhism AND Taoism. You haven't read Dawkins and you haven't studied Buddhism OR Taoism. You're full of shit. That isn't an Ad Hominem attack, it is the truth. You could care less about the truth, you just want to fit in to some group and pretend you are an intellectual.

    You may fool idiots into believing you're intelligent, but you won't trick those who actually are. They'll spot you mile away.

    Oh, and Akhenaten did create Monotheism.
    Before him, there was no such thing.
    Moses is an Egyptian name and comes from ThutMOSIS who was Akhenaten's half brother. ThutMOSIS died before their father and that is why Akhenaten took the throne. The Biblical account (and Quran account) of Moses never took place. It was a fictional story designed for the allegorical message. 95% of the Tanakh (Old Testament) is allegorical and ANY Rabbi will tell you that.

    Israel itself was nothing more than a group of Egyptians.
    The word Hebrew comes from the Egyptian word Hebrai which meant "The Farmers" or "The Peasants" . . .

    Abraham came from Ur which was Babylonia and he went south into Egypt and entered into the city of "Salem" which was ruled by the Pharaoh who was called Melchizedek in the Torat (Tarot backwards/also taken from Egyptians). The city of Salem (now Yeru-Salem or Jerusalem) was the "City of Peace" and the Pharaoh ruled from the city.
    Abraham gave 10% of everything he owned to Melchizedek when he was greeted by him. Abraham's offspring "Ishmael" was the son of the Egyptian Hagar and his son Isaac was from Abraham's wife Sarai who was Babylonian.

    If Salem (peace) already existed PRIOR to both Hebrews AND Arabs, it also existed before their words Shalom and Salaam. The city of Salem was an Egyptian city and the temple was an Egyptian Temple. The word Salem was an Egyptian word and it meant "Peace" . . . Judaism, Islam AND Christianity are all watered down Ancient Egyptian Cults. Nothing more.

    Abraham was uniting Babylonians and Egyptians.
    Abraham was a Zoroastrian, not a Monotheist.
    Abraham worshiped fire (thus God spoke to him out of the burning bush).
    He received his vision through the use of Magic Mushrooms.
    At that time there was a cult in Canaan (outside of Salem) which worshiped Moloch. Moloch was also known as El (Saturn). The people would sacrifice their first born son to Moloch and so Abraham took Ishmael up to sacrifice him to Moloch and The LORD (YHVH) stopped him from carrying it out.

    Akhenaten's mother was a Hebrew/Hebrai (Peasant) and Akhenaten was an offspring of Abraham through Isaac. So was Nefertiti.

    And Tut was murdered. The account of Tut's accidental death is taken from a message by Aye to the Hittite king. Aye was taking the thrown and he had just killed the Hittite prince, sent to marry Tut's widow. Tut's widow tried to unite the Hittites and Egyptians by marrying the Prince after Aye murdered Tut. Tut's widow even stated that the boy was murdered by his uncle and that she feared for her kingdom.

    The true history is much different from the biblical accounts.
    What I find funny is that you reject the Bible as the truth, yet you base your entire view of history (Monotheism included) on your delusion that Moses (ThutMOSIS) created Monotheism. You are a Christian Reactionary. Nothing more. So is Dawkins.
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  9. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    If I had a nickle for everytime you've said this to someone, Yet been totally wrong, I'd have a shit load of nickles. Clearly again, Only you are correct.
    I'll doubt you're dumb ass can even read hieroglyphics. Better Google.

    No it was Sun worship. The Sun is the disk light of life to all things according to Akhenaten. Therefore, It should be the Only Diety worshipped.



    Not The sun it's self? Now you wager another Opinion. The One Monotheistic belief in the Sun brought them toward the Light. That's how Akhenaten saw it.

    I know full well you are online pasting what others subject to you. And Besides Tom hare utilizes Subjectivity in that book anyways. You are trying not to call Aton a sun worshipped monotheistic deity when the truth is Akhenaten made Aten into the new aspect of ra. It's Mythology of the Sun God repersented by the sun disk. it's not Monothesitic divinity, Monotheistic divinity is not based on the sun, Sun disk, or Sun God repersented by the Sun disk. Aten was not talking about a Supernatural Being, He was talking about how he thought the Sun gave life to everything. He believed the solar disk part of the sun's light elevated conciousness.


    Doesn't matter if you got it from Google or Barns and noble. You're hypocritical for critizing me for reading dawkins books. Like I said, Provide the evidence I used google. You can't so stop making false assumptions. Of course you don't get your infromation from google you get from subjective books or paste other peoples words. Great job, Mr. philosopher. I doubt You read that book anyway. All you do is pretend online all day long for shits and giggles. You're only fooling yourself.


    Actually you probably just searched the internet and pasted an excrept.
    You have not even been studing it for more than 2 years let alone the age of 7.
    LMAO!

    Firstly I never accused you. I said you probably do. Wether you do or not it's obvious you palgerize from books all the time, You're just now giving authors credit for it. I have read dawkins book, Think what you like though, You're going to anway, because your fucking retarded. Actually you are commiting Ad hominem fallacies, I'm not full of shit just because you lie about what I said about dawkins. Honestly, Email dawkins and get over your obession.

    You are the dolt, I spotted you. This is what you care about. not me. You are the one trying to fool everyone. However, when people debunk you, You carry on and on off the subject. Or try to twist the matter. However, You're incorrect alot. I really should just start ignoring you. You're pointless.
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  10. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    Whoever Moses was existed during Neferhotep I rule, 13th Dynasty.
    Yeah Akhenaten did create a sort of monotheism. Noone said he didn't. I pretty much said thoughout this thread he Created monotheistic belief in One Deity, aten, Which was the new aspect of only sun worshipping. You're making the Stupid assumption that Moses was related to Akhenaten which doesn't prove any point. Moses diffently wasn't named moses, Of course Moses was pseudopigraphical. However you're claiming moses was distantly related to Akhenaten by default. I made an Allegorical from the hadiths version of jannat to Jannat in Saudi Arabia... Just to show you how stupid those types of allegories are. Does that mean a false Heaven is in one of the Islamic nations containing mohammads dead companions and relatives... NO! Stop making factless slippery slope arguments. I don't need a rabbi, You do!


    That is the bibical account of where abraham comes from. We can't really know. Abrham was born in Ur of the Chaldeas which is a part of Babylonia, Chaldeas were Rulers in 11th dynasty. However, The City wasn't Originally ruled by Babylonia, the Original city of Ur was runned by the Sumerians. Before babylonians tookover babylon lied in the land of Shinar. later around the fall of the third dynasty Ur was captured by the Babylonians. bibically Abraham left Ur then settled in Haran then entered the Land of Canaan. As for Jerusalem original names, arbaham & Melchizedek you copped that off wikipedia. Understand making bibical accounts is pointless... None of it is backed up with evidence.



    Yet again More pointless mythological Folktales, I don't give a shit about.
    nor was I talking about.

    Stop making stupid allegoricals. It's fucking up your history.

    Tiye - was egyptian/Asiatic. Tjuyu, Tiye's mother, was egyptian. Desendant of "Ahmose Nefertari". Tjuyu's father Yuya was Asiatic.

    That is done by examing the Mummies, Not making stupid allegoricals
    Inorder To shove your subjective agenda down peoples throats.



    That is complete Bullshit. I watched a whole special on it. LMAO!
    you're just making shit up as you go along now.

    http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/882


    Umm no. The point I was making is that the moses creation of a Monothesitic belief in Divinity comes much later. I'm not suggesting Moses was behide it. The person who is behind Monothesitic belief in Divinity is not Akhenaten since he created the Monothesitic belief in only Aton -- Sun Worship.

    For the tenth time moron, this has nothing to do with dawkins, who by the way is not a christian. No matter what Excerpt you pull, no matter what event he speaks at, he is not a christian. You can't grasp what the man is saying properly is the problem, this is due to the fact you lack the full context inwhich he is stating it. You're a goddam dolt. Now Stop changing the fucking subject.

    What I have been saying is this and has always been just this....

    Akhenaten created a Monothesitic belief in only, Aten, one deity -- which was Sun worship. Monotheism in divinity comes later. And that has to be true, Since During tut's reign Monotheism deity became theism deities again.
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  11. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Not even reading what you wrote.
    Like I said, I'm finished with you.

    Go in peace, kid.
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