Better wrestler, GSP or Koscheck?

Discussion in 'MMA, Boxing & Other Combat Sports' started by Delinquent, Dec 12, 2010.

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  1. Delinquent

    Delinquent lol

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    Jackass over in AEH thinks GSP is the better wrestler

    Discuss your thoughts on who is truely the better wrestler ofthe two
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  2. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

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    Couldnt tell from the last fight. Though Koscheck definitely wins in the Human Punching Bag category.
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  3. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

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    gsp > koschek. he out-wrestled him in 2007, and he outwrestled and outpunched him last night.
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  4. Delinquent

    Delinquent lol

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    He didnt outwrestle kos last night

    Most of his takedowns were stuffed, and when he was finally able to score a takedown he couldnt control kos for shit

    He only outwrestled kos in the first fight cause kos literally didnt train in his wrestling. He came in cocky thinking itd be impossible for gsp to take him down. Meanwhile gsp was training with the canadian olympic national team. So in that fight, hard work overcame rustiness and cockiness
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  5. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

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    he had more takedowns than koschek plain and simple. therefore he outwrestled him.

    he beat koschek in all aspects of mma last night. grappling, kicking and striking.
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  6. KRich662

    KRich662 Well-Known Member

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    GSP's wrestling is more suitable for MMA. In a pure wrestling match Kos wins
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  7. Delinquent

    Delinquent lol

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    Takedowns alone do not define wrestling, wrestling does, and he couldnt out wrestle koscheck

    If anything, koscheck out wrestled him. Stuffed most the takedowns, better scrambles, and even better takedowns. Gsp took him down from countering kos's strikes coming in, kos scored takedowns by driving him against the cage and wrestling him to the ground with superior technique
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  8. KRich662

    KRich662 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see Kos get 1 takedown last night
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  9. KRich662

    KRich662 Well-Known Member

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  10. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

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    ^ yup. was about to say kos only had 1 takedown in the first round that lasted about 3 seconds and took about 2 minutes to happen.

    GSP, on the other hand, was clearly looking to score points through takedowns to keep kos off balance throughout the night because GSP was ruining him in standup.

    and just throwing it out there: canada wants him to wrestle for them in the olympics. pretty sure nobody's knocking down koschek's door to get him to wrestle outside of mma.
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  11. Charlie.Rose

    Charlie.Rose www.echelonnine.com

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    i thought Koscheck would have hit him with more takedowns than he did, it only made sense that he would at least attempt to. But after standing there and getting the shit jabed out of ur right eye you would think he would change his game plan up. Nope, Koscheck just fucking sucked in the fight in all aspects.
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  12. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

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    When all things were equal before Kos proved what boxing fans have known for years that most MMA guys can't deal with basic shit that you learn in the first two weeks of boxing classes, Kos's wrestling was better. He stuffed most of GSP's takedowns. I think George got one, and Kos immediately got up. While Kos got him in the clinch and took him down. I think Kos's wrestling is better. Using the Canadian olympic team thing is irrelevant tbh. The best wrestlers are Americans and Russians, so there's no telling how many B and C level American wrestlers could beast on the Canadian wrestling team.
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  13. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    As a lifelong martial artists with advanced rank in judo,half-way to my purple belt in bjj,holding advanced rank and/or skill in karate,Muay Thai (Kru assistant) kali,firearms,wrestling (honed with Antonio McKee),a potent capoeirista despite less than a year of direct training under Mestre Roque "La Pantera" (THE PANTHER) a mestre lutador ("fighting teacher" who can fight with STREET CAPOEIRA,which we only got a very small glimpse of when Anderson Silva DOWNGRADES IT for his matches) Kenpo Karate and TKD 5th dan,tang soo do 1st dan,hapkido expert,shaolin chuan fa 2nd dan and hung gar black sash,boxing for well past a decade,kali for 11 years and much more I can say the following:

    Very simply...we have yet to see and will probably NEVER see a pure wrestling match between the two men.However,regarding wrestling for MMA,GSP's overall MMA skill sets and especially striking operate at a strikingly higher level than Kos',and thus make it easier for GSP to outwrestle Kos in the cage.As we have seen,he uses his striking to facilitate his wrestling vs Kos,just as we've seen him do the opposite vs opponents like Hardy and Alves.We must not for a moment underplay the importance of sparring partners,camp quality and the income to really makeit top notch (GSP has LOTS MORE $ THAN KOS so his CAMP WILL BE CORRESPONDINGLY SUPERIOR)reach,footwork,timing,defense,elusiveness,tactics,experience and conditioning when factoring in our impressions of these two warriors.GSP has the greater skill in each of these skill sets and probably has a large advantage in conditioning too.All of this adds up to a very formidable advantage that is quite difficult to overcome for just about anyone.
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  14. KRich662

    KRich662 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for stating what everyone in the thread has already said and using way too many fucking words to do it
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  15. KRich662

    KRich662 Well-Known Member

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    GSP actually executed 4 takedowns from 9 attempts compared to Kos' 1 takedown from 4 attempts. Kos improved his position none from the takedown and wasn't able to land any damaging strike.
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  16. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    Actually GSP's footwork,timing,jabs hooks and repeatedly leg attacks retarded Kos' ability to shoot as the fight wore on.Remember that leg kicks take the spring you need for your takedowns away from you...I just demonstrated that point rather painfully to some energetic big semi-racist MMA wannabe's a few weeks ago. Also you guys gotta remember that GSP was WAITING on Kos to try the takedowns and had defenses set...including his formidable subgame which Kos seems to lack pretty decisively.Kos isn't like say RASHAD EVANS who has world class sub-guys HIS OWN SIZE who roll with him and validate his subgame (anyone see RHADI FERGUSON and ROLLES GRACIE JR. verify RASHAD'S subgame? If not...YouTube - Is Rashad Evans A BJJ Black Belt) We don't really know how good Kos' sub OFFENSE is,although we have reason to believe that his sub DEFENSE is VERY GOOD (he's been in there with monsters like GSP who weren't close to tapping him,and don't gimme dat noise about GSP wasn't looking for subs...because he WASN'T.Lol.But GSP knew that Kos wouldn't give up the OPPORTUNITY FOR A SUB EASILY AT ALL,due to Kos' tremendous wrestling-borne position domination and scrambling skill; so GSP wouldn't waste valuable energy trying to FORCE a sub,he'd just see if he could strike and use tactics and takedowns and gnp to hopefully open up a opportunity for him).
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  17. I love BIG COCK

    I love BIG COCK The Shows About to Begin

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    Kos is the better pure wrestler, and it's impossible to debate that until GSP meets him or someone of his caliber in a pure wrestling match.

    MMA grappling, it's GSP. Kos has not mauled the type of people GSP has in his MMA career.
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  18. jayoo

    jayoo new york representative

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    id put money on gsp in a pure wrestling match anyday

    people want to throw accomplishments to back who would win but being a wrestler through highschool/college doesn't automatically mean your better and koscheck has done nothing in either match with gsp to prove he would have any advantage had it been a pure wrestling match..

    anyone whos saying either is better is speculating anyway.. when it comes down to it though gsp has at least somewhat of an argument, even though its mma there's been 2 fights hes clearly got the better of the wrestling aspect both times.

    it doesn't necessarily crossover to pure wrestling because without striking involved koscheck might be a lot more dangerous grappling, who knows. id still put my money on gsp though because with what we've SEEN, all things point to him being better. id never make a bet based on background facts of a fighter, especially when we've seen gsp dominate both fights against koscheck with wrestling as one of the mixed martial arts used..
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  19. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    Actually the details in my response make ALL THE DIFFERENCE to people WHO ACTUALLY ARE MARTIAL ARTISTS.Your response merely indicates your opinion--which I have no problem with s'allgood--and it also reflects your literal ignorance about the specifics and nuances of advanced training.I don't recall anyone mentioning the importance of camp quality,sparring partners,income,defense,the problem of gnp'ing GSP due to his high end hybrid subgame which can and would expose the holes in Kos' bjj,GSP's reach,etc.So yeah I said SEVERAL IMPORTANT THINGS THAT OTHERS INCLUDING YOU DIDN'T SPEAK ON.That's why I brought it up.

    No offense intended,man.Lol.
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  20. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    Pretty sure Kos won the wrestling battle in the second fight......but GSP punched any game plan that involved using that wrestling right out of his head.
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