Beating Machida

Discussion in 'MMA, Boxing & Other Combat Sports' started by Crates, May 25, 2009.

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  1. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

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    The only thing I saw in that White fight is that Machida does have fundamental striking flaws, which I already knew.

    He kinda has Wanderlei syndrome where he'll start swinging with little regard for his defense (especially when he smells blood) and someone with good, quick strikes could probably take advantage of that. The one guy I can think of with good straight punches and the presence of mind to grab kicks is Anderson Silva.

    Of course, if you're close enough to hit him, he can hit you. The guy has some really tricky combinations and sweeps. White had some hard straight shots, but he still got clocked himself. If you get him on the ground, he has BJJ. Notice Vernon didn't want it with him on the ground despite being a former Pancrase fighter.

    The guy's definitely not invincible, but he's clearly an intelligent and well-rounded fighter which you have to take into consideration before saying a certain gameplan will beat him. He's won against many different types of opponents already in his short career.
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  2. toker

    toker My Money Grow On Trees

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    u must be one these new kids

    mma has been around for years.. its called vale tudo


    i beleive thats been in brazil since the 20s or so.. so u have at least 80 yrs of cross training.
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  3. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Obviously MMA's been around for years. I'm not talkin' about just straight MMA. Obviously, that's been around. I'm talking about being elite at so many different aspects of fighting... Not just being solid at several different arts. I mean becoming EXCELLENT like the St. Pierres, Fedors, Anderson Silvas, and now Machida.... There aren't many of those but they are breaking through. Even the BJ Penn's and slowly Kenny Florians too.
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  4. toker

    toker My Money Grow On Trees

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    you can train fighters in everything.. dont mean theyll ever amount to anything.. ur argument relies on them actually BECOMING great..

    cus think about it.. anderson silva pretty much comes from the same background as every chute box fighter.. good striker with bjj training.

    and there are very few if any people that are elite at several different arts
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  5. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    No... Because my argument never stated that every fighter is elite. I specifically named the ones that are elite at multiple fighting styles. My argument is that Machida is now in there with his jiu-jitsu being as good as it is... And of course his striking also... So my argument worked perfectly.
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  6. Big K

    Big K U Wanna Battle?

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    I'm tired of seeing "black belt in BJJ hurrr durrr" as the be all end all argument for someone's ground game. There have been some of black belts who just plain suck on the ground, some who don't adapt their pure grappling game to MMA very well, and non-BJJ guys who can hold their own with anyone on the ground.

    We haven't seen a lot of Machida on the ground in MMA, namely against top level grapplers(although most 205ers are sprawl and brawl guys.) Sokoudjou is a joke on the ground, Nakamura didn't do too bad against Machida on the ground, Tito almost got the triangle. At the very least, it'd be much smarter to take Machida down than to stand with him.

    Also, MMA existed LONG before Vale Tudo. Look up Pankration.
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  7. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Again... I have to disagree with you 100%. In the little we've seen Machida on the ground, we've seen that he doesn't lay there to get stood up. He actually has a VERY active guard. That's how I know he's good on the ground because he's confident enough in his jiu-jitsu that he's not worried takin' chances for subs that could end up having his guard passed.

    I know the difference between a non-MMA jiu-jitsu fighter and an MMA. Machida doesn't pull guard and just hold you in fear of getting hit.
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  8. Big K

    Big K U Wanna Battle?

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    Of Lyoto's potential challengers(Rampage, Shogun, Evans, maybe Hendo), where do you think they'd have a better chance @ winning: on the feet or on the ground? Think of it that way.

    I say they'd all fare better if they could somehow get a takedown rather than trying to stand and trade.
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  9. toker

    toker My Money Grow On Trees

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    yea we could go back to the greek/roman days too..

    back in those days it was common for boys/men to engage in that combative wrestling..

    i wanna say they even talk about the knda stuff in the gilgamesh stories.. either way people have been cross training for longer than people wanna admit

    and i agree with the black belt

    v silva was a black or brown belt.. sakuraba wasnt even a bjj'er i dont think yet he was subbing people left an right.. arona is a black belt an adcc champ and he cant sub anyone
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  10. toker

    toker My Money Grow On Trees

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    those guys arent elite at a bunch of different arts

    fedor isnt an elite striker, wrestler, or bjj'er

    not that u need to be
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  11. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    That's an obvious but how easy is that? Tito couldn't get 'em down (and Tito is a very good wrestler...). When Rashad did desperately try to get the takedown, he couldn't either. They just got beat the fuck up while reachin' for the takedown.
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  12. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Yes they are... And Fedor is an elite striker... A different type of striker, but yes he is an elite striker... If he can put Tim Sylvia in a fetile position (turtled up) within the first minute of the fight using strikes, that says something...

    And he's elite sambo champion (takedowns), GREAT takedown defense, great striker, THEE BEST GROUND AND POUND IN MMA, and for heavyweights, one of the best submission specialist in MMA. That would qualify him as elite.

    And everyone else I named is elite at several aspects as well. If you don't see that, I don't think you watch much MMA.
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  13. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Nobody even mentioned that "MMA" just started. That argument was so outta left field. I said these fights are mixing their fighting styles to an elite level now. It is a new generation of fighting and this is VERY obvious. Especially as far as MMA.... People are coming in as complete as they ever have... We've never had this, point blank.

    People are like George St. Pierre is wrestling with National Olympic teams and then going to Brazil for weeks to train with some of the best jiu-jitsu specialist in the world and then training with elite K1 strikers...
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  14. Big K

    Big K U Wanna Battle?

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    Try a jumping, lunging punch followed by clinch and Judo trip. It sounds stupid...but he fell for it in back to back fights.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, Rashad and Tito couldn't get close to a takedown, but these two Judoka took him down a combined total of four times in their two fights. Though it'll likely be harder now after his training with Satoshi Ishii, getting a takedown from clinch seems far more likely than securing a double/single leg takedown. Shooting seems pretty much useless against Machida, IMO.

    Also, SAMBO is much more than just takedowns.
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  15. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    I know Sambo has more than just takedowns... It also has submissions... It's grappling as a whole, but I was just pointing out that it proves he has takedowns.

    And the one against Soukoudju (however u spell his name) just further proves his jiu-jitsu is legit. That was a perfect sweep usin' the butterfly guard.
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  16. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    double post. delete this one.
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  17. toker

    toker My Money Grow On Trees

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    i disagree

    an elite striker is somebody on k1/boxing/muy thai level..

    u ever see a mma vs one the above in non mma rules?

    there just arent many people that look fluid with their hands, feet, and the clinch.. but thats me

    shogun is one the better strikers at his weight and i watched some dutch kickboxer irrc take it to him.. shogun had to revert to silva and just go with soccer kicks to the head

    ill give u the sambo.. but thats all.. gnp isnt an art but i do agree hes the best.. something bout them russians cus vov had some nasty gnp
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  18. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    That's the difference... AN ELITE STRIKER IN MMA IS DIFFERENT FROM AN ELITE STRIKER IN K1. Fact of the matter is, K1 strikers have less to worry about because they don't have to worry about being taken down and the completely changes striking. You can't put as much into punches and whatnot. If an elite K1 fighter came into MMA, he wouldn't dominate striking like he did in K1 because of the fear of being taken down and dominated. So fact of the matter is, I TRULY GENUINELY BELIEVE Fedor would knock some heads off of K1 fighters in an MMA environment (which is more true to a real fight). Hence, Fedor is an elite striker.

    [quote\there just arent many people that look fluid with their hands, feet, and the clinch.. but thats me

    shogun is one the better strikers at his weight and i watched some dutch kickboxer irrc take it to him.. shogun had to revert to silva and just go with soccer kicks to the head[/quote]

    Shogun isn't the tactical striker Fedor is. Fedor often times his opponents and knocks them out or hurts them to the point where they might as well be knocked out with precision accurate punches. A great example would be the Arvloski fight.

    I disagree. It's not an actual "martial art" persay but it is a HUGE part of ground game... It's not wrestling and it's not jiu-jitsu so what else can it be? It's not like everyone ground and pounds like him. There is an actual strategy and skill to it so to me, it is in itself it's own martial art.
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  19. toker

    toker My Money Grow On Trees

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    theres the difference between u guys and me..

    i wont lower my standards to lump so people into some elite category..


    by mma standards they might be elite but not when u look at thw whole picture

    gnp is a result of wrestlers.. pretty sure it was coleman that coined it.. maybe kerr..

    go watch some dan severn fights.. he would slap u or hit u with an open palm cus wrestling had no natural way of beatiing opponents outside of points for takedowns/positioning

    but it was probably going on b4 that..
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  20. iAMhell

    iAMhell New Member

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    why compare machida's old fights, he has improved vastly, its like ppl still going on about fedor's fight with arona, not moving on with the times.
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