Discussion in 'Emcee Hookups' started by DethStryque, Aug 16, 2012.
Face Deth. 2 rounds, 48 bars, RWZ rules, flips allowed.
I'll go one round of 30 lines. I'll drop first and allow flips. I just don't have the time to write two verses.
If we go only 1 round with flips, friend Flux, that gives me a very distinct advantage that you don't get a chance to even with a flip round of your own. The chances are high that I'd win that battle...but the battle wouldn't be fair. I don't like artificially unfair battles [ those are against RWZ rules too, lol ]. When can you get time to drop 2 verses?
If anything - it's just to give this battle stuff another outing, reading some of the drops here got my brain ticking again with it after an 8 year hiatus.
I can drop a verse of 30 by say Sunday, Monday afternoon at the very latest. Two verses would be out of the question right now.
I'll leave it down to you pal.
I'm glad you're down bruh, I appreciate the willingness you have to face Deth after a long hiatus. But if you can't do 2 rounds? It's futile...you're setting up a losing proposition. And an unfair battle. Sooo let's try this:
I'll give you till TUESDAY AFTERNOON August 21 to drop your first verse, and a whole week after that...NEXT TUESDAY August 28th...to drop your 2nd 30 bar verse. Fair?
That's a real interesting rule.
Flips have always been "allowed" -- on every site, through every textcee generation and since the day written language was formed. Everyone things they know exactly what a flip is - and would by default say 'flips are wack' --- but really, the definition of a flip is one of the most subjective aspects of evaluating a text verse.
Let's think of it in terms of biting, since it's easier for most people to sink their teeth into. -- To understand what a flip is you need to understand what a bite is, in order to define the gray area in between.
clearly we see word-for-word bites, or even bar for bar -- or even verse for verse. The more a concept/verbiage aligns with a previously written work, the lesser the probability that two writers could have arrived at the same concept and executed it in the same exact way. Using myself as an example, in 02 I was using wordplay like "rap drive/nothin to chauffer yourself" and i wouldnt be surprised if Sur5ill used the same wordplay at some point. No one would have accused either of us of having bit eachother - and based on what i know of sur - i can safely say neither of us saw eachothers wordplay and chose to flip it.
So I ask: if it is not a bite and is not a deliberate flip, is it a flip at all?
Remember, at some level, all things are a flip lol. Using words is, at some level, recycling. That is the very definition of language - language is the socially accepted vehicle for conveying socially aware concepts.
The reason I was prompted to reply to this - is that the rule "flips allowed" is just so interesting to me - such a unique statement is indicative of one of three things:
(1) an ego - suggesting someone is so ill that no matter what their opponent does, they will not top your lyrics.
(2) an idiot - wanting to allow flips so they can use flips themselves without being "DQed"
(3) a genius - the CURSE about flips, it's really a subjective concept. The BEAUTY about flips is, it's self-policed!!! The reason "allowing flips" could be indicative of a genius is because, it doesnt matter. Calling it out shows some swagger, while also really accomplishing nothing, because the reason "flips" are weak is because it is not NOVEL to the voters. Flipping is best served for the semi-vets that are rusty and cant conjure up any relevant creativity and are also SCURRED to 'come off wack'. So many semi-vets are "afraid" of saying something wack that they become motivated by fear, and would rather lose with flipped concepts than take the risk of saying something novel which might not resonate with the audience. Flips don't work well because they arent new, they arent (or rarely are) personal, and they tend to date themselves. Yet, remember, two things are required to make a flip - the individual writing a flipped concept, and the audience recognizing a flipped concept. The 'best biters' have stripped concepts from one site and applied them on a totally different site - if a tree falls in the woods with no one around, does it make a sound? if a flip is used and no one recognizes it, is it a flip? Someday it might be, when someone recognizes it as such - but until then even bitten lines can appear 'novel' and unique on another site. This happened to a lot of us back in the Rapworld/rapmusic/bboy hay days --- where we'd see whole verses bitten on sites like 411 and random smaller boards (normally a couple mths after it happened). Alas, the reason there is potential to be a genius by allowing this rule is because it (a) doesnt help the opponent and (b) undermines the opponent nevertheless.
In the end - whether rules dictate "FLIPS ARE ALLOWED", "FLIPS ARE NOT ALLOWED", or do not reference flips at all --- it doesnt matter!!! People will argue that it wasnt a flip, people will argue that it was -- people will misattribute flips (if someone used "Chauffer" as 'Show For' and someone else used it as "Shoe Fur', is that a flip?) Note, i recognize 'shoe fur' wordplay would be phonetically stretched, just buildin off the original example.
In summary... allowing flips can only mean someone is either (A) AN EGO, (B) AN IDIOT, (C) A GENIUS, (or (d) someone who answers (C) because they are an (A) or (B) )
Which one are you, sir?
He doesnt mean flip as in takin someones bar an rewordin it so that you cant tell he bit it... he means flip like.... if two rappers.... were to have a battle.... an so they battled each other... an one said sommin bout the stack of hundreds in his pocket the other guy might say he only had a hundred on top of a buncha ones.. flip.
or i hit you in your chest so hard you start doin circles. flip.
an lol@deth if he thinks theres a great probability im gonna lose our battle cause im only doin one verse. im gonna have you rethinkin your math
Sir, I note that...based upon the clear interpretation that you have [ in this post quoted above ] that flips are essentially irrelevant or the purview of the wakk...pretty much whatever I answer? You'll have a slippery slope logic which translates into essentially: "Deth is wakk".
Unless I present to you a different definition for flips, and a different way to approach flips.
A "flip", sir, by definition, is literally turning your opponent's punchlines against him. Contrary to your belief? Potent flips are excellent examples of creativity, skill, lyricism, quick wittedness and more. You may not prefer to use "flips"; no matter how powerfully they're done. Fine. But your preference sir, doesn't denude flips of their power, their creativity, their applicability, and all of the other beneficial aspects that "flips" display.
Example: CLIPS had punchlines for Serius Jones being a barber. Serius Jones took that personal punchline, and flipped it by saying something like: "...dismantled bitch!/Yeah I was a barber so I'm certified tuh handle CLIPS".
"Biting", sir, is straight up plagiarism. In no way are "biting" and "Flips" similar.
"Feeding", sir, is what the ignorant think "flips" are. "Feeding" is simply using an idea that your opponent used but you FAILED to flip it with a powerful personal, or you're using an idea that your opponent used in a bar you wrote featuring a DIRECTIONLESS punch.
Let's define what FILLER is.
Urban Dictionary: lyric fillers
"FILLER", sir, are bars wholly inapplicable to the battle at hand. They aren't just directionless, they're also purposeless. Many uninitiated unskilled semi-vets think that threats, descriptions of violence, and pretty much anything that's not common personals, common insults, common nameplay etc is a "filler". In reality? Threats, graphic violence, lyrics evoking imagery of destroying/dominating/dissing/dismantling your opponent, lyrics that praise yourself, etc etc are actually punchlines in and of themselves. Only the ignorant and unskilled think otherwise.
The ignorant, unskilled, etc. simply display their lack of knowledge, lack of range, lack of vocabulary, lack of creativity, and the narrow bias that comes from their lack of lyricism and vision when they define "filler" in such a broad and wholly incorrect way. Their verses reflect their ignorance; their verses are numbingly repetitive and unimaginative in content. Same schemes, same punching style, same rhyme patterns; they are devoid of all of the hallmarks of true lyricism. No sound manipulation, no fresh creative visuals, no anything with any real consistent WOW [ in a good way ] factor. They're essentially rhyming high school content punches at best.
Holy shit there's two Deth's.
I can't promise to drop a second verse, my free time is done for the most part. The point of me proposing a 30 line battle is purely because you're an active battler and will drop a verse.
If you're dead set on a two round battle then someone else will have to step in. However, if you're after a battle against someone who will drop a verse, albeit, just the one, then set up the thread.
Aight. I'm supposed to give L. Kross one more day before I key my response. Then I'll just write against both of yall then.
crazy, in text, we used to call that "playing off a verse".
but word, flipping in freestyle battles is cool, flipping in text verses is lame no matter how you define it, imo at least!
^ coming from true talent.
You're right, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But me? Look I don't make a distinction between text and live bars. If you write for live battles [ which most of us do no matter what we say to the contrary ] then you're writing a text verse which you'll recite in front of a crowd. Period. Lyricists with sufficient skill can write and say the exact same bars in any medium--text, live, on a track, at a show, on the streets, etc.--and still rip it no matter what the crowd. That's how I do it. That's how every sicc veteran lyricist I ever heard of [ excepting maybe Jay-Z and Biggie ] did and does it.
If you go off top? You can go off top anywhere...if you got skillz. If you write? Your bars will hit anywhere. If you got skillz. Flips are powerful weapons that--when done properly--are hella appreciated by anybody with any knowledge in any medium. In my opinion, at least.
But hey namix and whoever agrees with him...sallgood if you think otherwise.
I agree flips are powerful live - but trust me, they are not in a text verse.
Flips are powerful LIVE because it demonstrates someones aptitude to come off the top, to your point --- they are significantly less powerful in text because it nearly does the opposite.
Remember - traditional text battles were "someone drops" then "someone else drops" - people vote, its over. If you are doing a series of 'text cyphers', it'd be a bit more impactful for sure, but your flip would have to be ill as fuck to turn heads.
Anyway, make up ur own rules, but that "any medium" shit is bullshit bro - that part is not opinion, that is an objective observation based statistically significant data lol.
Flips get far less love on text sites than in live cyphers. If you don't believe me, start doing a lot of flips and watch yourself get smoked.
Nevertheless, I feel you on the live tip, flips are dope in that setting.
MrFlux = fLux? TextCrew? I can't remember the site I was on back then, fuck. Oh well.
You take 6 months to show up for live battles, too?
Yup that's me. Text crew... oh shit that's old. Think the website would have been Fiendworld, which then turned into Beats Rhymes Llife. What was your alias?
I can't remember who I went by over there. Either trap, god extensions, detoxify, meta6 ... one of those few.
Separate names with a comma.