Authoritative muslim scholars condemn attacks

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Thrilla-Ali, Mar 11, 2007.

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  1. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    The Qur'an says this:

    Invite all to the way of your Lord
    with wisdom and beautiful preaching.
    And argue with them
    in ways that are best and most gracious...
    And if you punish,
    let your punishment be proportional
    to the wrong that has been done to you.
    But if you show patience, that is indeed the best course.
    Be patient, for your patience is from God.
    And do not grieve over them,
    or distress yourself because of their plots.
    For God is with those who restrain themselves,
    and those who do good.


    Qur'an - 16:125-128

    My understanding of Islam (whether YOU think it is right or wrong) does not condone terrorism. Personally, I don't understand why you would think it does. All that signifies to me is that you know nothing about Islam, except what you read from horrible sites that have a very clear agenda. (And really, that is probably less than nothing).
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  2. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    Here's an article written by Hamza Yusuf. I'm not going to argue with either you or Menaz as I don't really have the knowledge or will or patience.

    On September 11th our lives changed forever. We witnessed an act of aggression that in many ways does not have a parallel in past or present times. There are several elements that make this act unique, from the use of civilian planes as weapons of mass destruction to the attack on the most widely recognized skyscrapers in the world. Nor have we ever witnessed the terrible indictment of Islam as having a part to play in such a heinous crime.

    Muslims were seen rejoicing in some parts of the world in a display of what can only be called shamaatatul 'aadai', which is rejoicing at the calamities of ones’ enemies. This is something explicitly prohibited in Islam and was never practiced by the Prophet of Mercy, upon him be prayers and peace. We have seen images since of American flags burning to further arouse the wrath of a nation filled with grief, confusion and anger. Again, Islam prohibits the burning of flags according to the explicit verse, “Do not curse [the idols] of those who call on other than Allah, thus causing them to curse Allah out of animosity [toward you] and without knowledge.” This verse prohibits even the cursing of false gods because of the consequences. We have also seen image after image of Muslims with beards and turbans, who by all outward means look religious and pious - but are they really?

    Unfortunately, the West does not know what every Muslim scholar knows; that the worst enemies of Islam are from within. The worst of these are the khawaarij who delude others by the deeply dyed religious exterior that they project. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said about them, “When you see them pray you will consider your own prayers insignificant. They recite the Quran but it does not exceed the limits of their throat.” In other words, they don’t understand the true meanings. The outward religious appearance and character of the khawaarij deluded thousands in the past, and continues to delude people today. The Muslims should be aware that despite the khawaarij adherence to certain aspects of Islam, they are extremists of the worst type.

    Our Prophet said, peace be upon him, “Beware of extremism in your religion.” Islam is the middle way between excess and neglect. Zealots are a plague upon religion. These extremists come in two types. The first is a reactionary extremist who falls far right of a center-point. Reactionary extremists do not want any pluralism; they view the world in melodramatic, black and white, good and evil terms. They are good and anyone who opposes them is evil. From among the Muslims these are people who ‘excommunicate’ any Muslim who fails to share their interpretations of the Quran. They use takfir [denouncing a Muslim as an unbeliever] and character assassination as a tool for marginalizing any criticism directed at them. They are used often by the Western media in order to scare simple people and cause them to believe that Muslims are insane. Unfortunately, our communities provide them with much fuel to fire their incendiary flames.

    The second group are radical extremists, who while they are almost identical with the former group, differ in that they will use violence to further their cause. They are actually worse than the first. They believe like every nefarious secret society before them that ‘the end justifies the means.’ They see any act as acceptable if it will further their ‘cause.’ This is blatantly anti-Islamic for a number of reasons.

    Firstly, Islam’s means must reflect its noble ends. Any means that does not embody the core truths and ethics of Islam is not from Islam and thus denounced as aberration. Secondly, Islam is not a secret society of conspirators who no one knows what they are planning. Islam declares openly its aims and objectives and these are recognized by good people everywhere as pure and congruent with their own wisdom and traditions. In the case of many of these extremists even the non-Muslims recognize that no religion of any weight could sanction the taking of innocent lives. The Quran says that the Torah and the Gospel have guidance and light and that the Quran came to fulfill these prior dispensations. Good Christians and Jews who believe in God and live ethically upright lives have no frame of reference for such acts, so how could these acts be from Islam, which confirms what has come before it?

    Thirdly, they are invariably people who have never taken a true spiritual path to God and nor have they studied the humanities. I can almost guarantee that you will not find a scholar of poetry among the whole vile lot of these people. They have no true knowledge of Arabian culture, which is centered in the idea of futuwwa; a word akin to the western word chivalry. The terrorists posing as journalists who killed Ahmad Shah Masud [Afghan Northern Alliance leader] were cowards of the worst type. Killing themselves was not bravery but stupidity, but killing one’s enemy in such a way is the worst form of treachery and the Arabs have many poems denouncing such type of people.
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  3. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    Our real situation is this: we Muslims have lost theologically sound understanding of our teaching. Islam has been hijacked by a discourse of anger and the rhetoric of rage. We have allowed for too long our mimbars [pulpits] to become bully pulpits in which people with often recognizable psychopathology use anger - a very powerful emotion - to rile Muslims up, only to leave them feeling bitter and spiteful towards people who in the most part are completely unaware of the conditions in the Muslim world, or the oppressive assaults of some Western countries on Muslim peoples. We have lost our bearings because we have lost our theology. We have almost no theologians in the entire Muslim world. The study of kalaam, once the hallmark of our intellectual tradition, has been reduced to memorizing 144 lines of al-Jawhara and a good commentary to study it, at best.

    The reality is we are an Umma [worldwide Muslim community] that no longer realizes that Allah is the power behind all power; that it is Allah who subjugates one people to another; that He gives dominion to whom He pleases and He takes it away from whom He pleases. Our understanding of tawhid [oneness of God] has fallen into such disarray that we can no longer introspect when afflictions befall us and then wonder in amazement at why the Americans seem incapable of introspection. Indeed, I personally attended a memorial service in San Francisco with over 30,000 people and the Reverend Amos Brown said in no uncertain terms that America must ask herself what she has done either wittingly or unwittingly to incur the wrath and hate of people around the world. Muslims on the other hand, generally prefer to attack the West as the sole reason for their problems when the truth is we are bankrupt as a religious community and our spiritual bankruptcy has led to our inability to even deliver the message of Islam to Westerners in a time when they were giving us platforms to do so.

    It is ironic that the Western media while producing many vile programs on Islam has also produced and aired material of the highest quality with a high level of accuracy only to be vilified by Muslims because it was not good enough. Where is our media? Where are our spokespeople? Where are our scholars? Where are our literary figures? The truth is we don’t have any - and so instead of looking inward and asking painful questions such as why we don’t have such things and such people, we take the simple way out by attacking people whom Allah tells us will do mean things, say bad things and plot against us. And always when we are warned we are told to be patient, to work for the good, to trust in Allah, to return to Allah, to implement our deen [religion].

    Conspiracy or not, we are to blame for the terrible backlash against Muslims. The simple reason is that when a crazy Christian does something terrible, everyone in the West knows it is the actions of a mad man because they have some knowledge of the core beliefs and ethics of Christianity. When a mad Muslim does something evil or foolish they assume it is from the religion of Islam, not because they hate us but because they have never been told by a Muslim what the teachings of Islam are all about.



    Khawaarij - Originally refers to a fanatical early Muslim sect which supported Prophet Mohammed's cousin Ali in the dispute over who should lead the Muslim community after the death of the prophet. When Ali offered to compromise, one of the khawaarij murdered him.

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  4. Leila Night

    Leila Night efrain,you're my one&only

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    PS. I don't expect you to read that. Ignorance has its own way of maintaining status quo.

    **~Salaam~**
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  5. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    I will read your copy and paste response after I take my last mid-term today.

    The fact that you consider me ignorant is amusing, to say the least.
    Especially when I seem to know more about your books than you do.
    Your book is divided into two parts. Mecca and Medina. What Mohammed said in the beginning was good. He had to be nice because he needed to gain followers.
    Once he gained followers the true Mohammed came out. Thus Medina.

    But I will read what you pasted.
    It would be nice if you could think for yourself instead of turning to others to answer me for you. Unfortunately that is not going to happen. Very few actually seek the truth.
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  6. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    And just so you know, my view of Islam is based on the words in the Quran and Hadith. I don't read other's words about subjects. I read the books myself and form my own opinion.

    Mohammed did not teach Inner Peace, Compassion, Forgiveness or Love for your Enemies. He did NOT teach the same message as Yeshua, Buddha, Lao Tzu and Krishna. You can close your eyes and believe whatever you like about Islam based on the scribblings of liars who distort what the book says, but that will not make Mohammed a better man nor will it make the Quran the Word of God. It will just make you a blind follower. Believe whatever you want to believe. But understand this, belief is not knowledge.
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  7. BeEgEe

    BeEgEe El Warm Shot

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    arrogance with every breath
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  8. BeEgEe

    BeEgEe El Warm Shot

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    I done told ya.

    Don't argue with menaz.

    This should be quite obvious by now.
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  9. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    How was that arrogant?
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  10. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Leila

    I skimmed the article. I have clearly stated that many moderate muslims are good people. Many moderate muslims are better people than the man they consider a prophet. Just because a moderate muslim is a good person and believes that Islam is a certain thing (incorperating their views into it and thus making it better), that does not mean that Islam is what they view it as.

    Islam is the Quran and Hadith, not the interpretation of modern clerics. No Muslim will go against Mohammed's words and Mohammed flat out said that if a person leaves the religion they are to be put to death. There is no way around that. He said it. It is unanimous among clerics that he said this. He also said that men are to beat their wives if they do not obey them. This is not the words of a man of God. I don't care how you try to interpret him. You will NEVER find a single place where Yeshua, Buddha, Lao Tzu OR Krishna promote beating a woman or killing anybody for any reason whatsoever. You simply will not find it.
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  11. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Yak, Yak, Yak...

    You don't even know what you're talking about half the time. For example, you don't even know what the "muslim brotherhood project" is and where it comes from.

    Sayyid Qutb was the leader of the "muslim brotherhood project" until he got executed. The adherer's of the "muslim brotherhood project" are radicals from egypt (where Qutb is from). Followers, such as Al zakhari (who later taught osama bin laden) followed the teachings of Qutb's book entitled "milestones" which supports extremism and radical views, such as attacking the "enemy" first, and getting rid of the "evil curruption" brought on by the west, off the face of the earth.

    Muslims distance themselves from the activities of militant groups based on the radical teachings of Sayyid Qutb - "the muslim brotherhood project"
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  12. BeEgEe

    BeEgEe El Warm Shot

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    my point exactly
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  13. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    People just read The muslim brotherhood project.
    I provided the truth! read and understand it.
    Read my atricle on it, do not read wikipedia, where
    anyone can write the information.

    This means DAWA. However, If christians, unbelievers, and Jews do not accept DAWA. They must become Dhimmies, Or else, Jihad is waged. President of Iran Sent a letter to Bush suggesting the samething, Which is why bush, Never acknowledged it.

    Lelia, Don't A.) stick your nose in a argument You know nothing about.
    And B.) Try reading what I provided, that way you don't repeat old arguments which have been corrected with the truth.
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  14. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    They are Apostate muslims. Not moderates.
    You can't follow Islam and be a Moderate.
    But you can be a Apostate muslim who follows secular islam.
    And those people I do give a dam about.

    Nice break down azue.
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  15. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Oh, so now I'm not a muslim?

    [​IMG] What an idiot.
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  16. cock juggler

    cock juggler Double ML=STUD

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  17. double ML

    double ML Guest

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  18. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    Real muslims must follow everything in the quran and hadith.
    Do you?
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  19. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    You don't put both shoes on at the same time nor do you step into a pair of jeans with both feet. If a person is in a dark room their entire life, you don't kick down all their walls at once. The light will blind them. First you have to open the blinds, little by little and let them see the world outside. Then you open the door and crack it slightly so that they can see there is a way out into that world. Then you let them walk out when they are ready.

    Moderates are not True Muslims.
    Nor are Jews True Jews.
    Christians are not True Christians.
    Buddhists are not True Buddhists.

    If a Muslim followed Mohammed completely, living exactly as he lived, they wouldn't be online at all.

    If a Jew followed the Law of Moses, they would still be sacrificing animals on alters and would be killing homosexuals and stoning anybody who has sex before marriage. They certainly would not be calling their synagogues "temples." There is only one Temple according to the Law of Moses.

    If a Christian followed Christ, then they would become like Christ instead of worshiping Christ and making idols out of him. If you follow a man up a mountain, then you become a climber, like him. If you do not follow him up the mountain then you cannot call yourself his follower, for you did not follow him. Christians are pagans. They are not followers of Christ. They don't even fully understand what Christ (Messiah) means. Yeshua was not the only Christ. The Christ has appeared in many forms, under many names.

    If a Buddhist was a True follower of Buddha then they would become a Buddha, since that is what Buddha taught. You cannot become what you worship. Worshiping Buddha makes you unable to become Buddha.

    Bahai are frauds. They are trying to pull all the religions together by saying that they teach the same message. They don't. The TRUE Prophets did. The false prophets taught their religions and religions don't teach the truth. Bahai teach that the message is progressive and that it changes. No, it doesn't. The message stays the same and man changes so the message must be taught in different ways. The message does not change.

    All the organized religions of the world will crumble to the One True Religion which men and women, boys and girls will LIVE when this Spiritual Revolution is fulfilled.
    They will not teach God. They will live God. They will not preach God. God will be with them.
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  20. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    What Muslims fail to realize is that while they praise Abraham for being the first to worship a singular God, Abraham didn't believe in just one God. Abraham worshipped only one God, but he didn't believe in just one God. He knew of other gods. He just didn't worship them. Just like the Babylonians, Greeks, Zoroastrians, Hindus and Egyptians.

    Abraham was a Zoroastrian.

    He came from UR. Where do you think Zoroaster was from? Same area. Muslims teach that Abraham's father was an idolater. That is utter nonsense. He was a Zoroastrian, just like Abraham.

    Muslims are so absolutely ignorant to true history and attempt to alter history to whatever babbling came out of Mohammed's mouth that it is impossible to get through to them. They would rather reject Archaeological Evidence and SCIENTIFIC PROOF than deny that their prophet was wrong.

    Mohammed said that comets (shooting stars) are missiles fired by Allah at the Jinn!!!!

    Do you really still believe that?
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