Atheists actually bellieve in GOD

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Alias3000, Aug 8, 2012.

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  1. UnbrokeN

    UnbrokeN Well-Known Member

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  2. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    I know... it's annoying :D

    But, I know the guys who are making the series - And there is a small possibility that they will do an English dub. If they do - man, it would be awesome.

    The thing I like about them, is that they use logic and science to investigate the fallacy of the scientific method in use today.

    If you are unclear as to what i mean, check out how Alhazen (Ibn al Haythm) fathered the modern scientific method by refuting Ptolemy's model, and then investigate how science is returning to that model now in a manner of speaking. It's philosophically interesting stuff.

    I used to be a proponent of atheism, a long time ago. But truth be told, the more I studied it, hte less I was convinced.

    DNA, RNA, complex amino acids, etc etc etc, if you know where I could take this conversation, it would most definitely be a looooong thread. So I'll stp for now. I don't want to infringe the atheists delicate belief system - they may feel offended. And I'm not here to offend belief groups.
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  3. Caesar

    Caesar Natural Aristocracy

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    No you weren't.
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  4. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    Yes I was, let me explain.

    I was born a Muslim in the UK. I used to go to the mosque for arabic lessons as a kid after school hours and get beaten by mullahs with a plastic pole. I had it bad. When I hit 14, I left the mosque as education there had ended, and I turned into a normal teen.

    By the time I hit 16, I hated religion... and anything to do with it.

    I used to argue with my friends, and lost a good many from that.

    It wasnt til my early to mid twenties that I started to stuy other religions just to see what they were about...

    ...I liked the idea of no religion, no attachment. I became an outcast in my own society due to it.

    Then, I returned to Islam because I was noticing certain things. I've already said this all before somewhere. Go back and trace my posts... TheBigPayback knows about me, he invited me here from VC forums :)

    If you wanna debate with me, we can start here - you up for it? Or you gonna disappear into the woodwork as others have done after a few posts against me? As is the pattern I seem to notice on all forums.

    Why you think TBPB invited me here? It aint coz I'm a rap fan. I hate rap music.
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  5. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    and yet no atheists have gone recruiting off site for backup

    its not supposed to be an insult. Its just a fact.

    (i am not an atheist btw)
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  6. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    Hah, well pointed out Bustalot :)

    I believe the reason he bought me in is because bro Nu'maan was the only Muslim here and was having a tough time of it.

    Seems my posts from the other forum made an impact on him (tbpb), even though he is a Christian and I am a Muslim.

    Here some verses from the Quran:

    "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

    "...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

    "O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed"

    I bid you farewell buddy :) and peace to you.
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  7. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    i like teachings that doesnt condemn others and seem to push acceptance and community and I try and listen to them all no matter the religion...

    I just dislike hearing someone try and tell me that their god is the only right answer and that all others are wasting their time.

    i dont beleive anyone is wasting their time with their religion, the waste of time starts when they start preaching intolerance because as far me is concerned gets dismissed immediately because i dont believe god cares about religion... its just my belief. As far as im concerned theres tons of religions. Pick one that you like, or not. Its just a pathway to spirituality and many find other routes.
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  8. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    I understand.

    The funny thing is, I've heard some Christians claim that there God is not my God and vice versa - and that could be said to be true if they believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) was a God - same as the holy ghost, because in Islam, we are monotheists, meaning we believe in only 1 God, and not 3.

    However, there are some sects from eastern Christianity who don't believe in polytheism and stick to 1 God ideal. Those Christians worship the same God as Muslims. Their method of worship may differ, but they still worship HIM in their own way...

    ... Religion is a word I use loosely when I talk of Islam, because Islam isn't just a religion, it's a system, a way of life, and it even encompasses politics too. But does so in a way that is puritan and not selective. However, ask me to give you an example today of this politically correct Islamic system of govenrment - and I honestly cannot say I can. The reason being is because the House of Saud and the Wahhabi sect, have hijacked Islam in the Kingdom od "Saudi occupied" Arabia, since the year 1924, the year our Khaliphate (like the Vatican and the pope) fell to their dirty hands.

    I study eschatology, a study of end times from religious scriptures and I know what time it is... final hour is moving into the final minutes now.

    Biblical as well as Islamic prophecies are being fulfilled with so much frequency now, it's amazing to witness. And slightly disturbing.

    I am all about the common ground, I seek to find that which is common between you and I (whoever you are) because we are human and we "feel". This is what the Quran taught me, to know how to be a real human. And how to champion my own humanity :)

    You could say "I don't need a religious book to confirm my humanity" and you may be right, some people are naturally gifted like that. But I would return with "My holy book is a lot more than a set of moral guidelines, it tells me of things that will be discovered in times to come, before anyone can discover them first, it is a book of "signs" and one that is soothing to recite, one that brings peace to me and enjoins me in a brotherhood where I see all humanity as related. One that gives me tidings of good news, and warns me of the dangers of sin - and extra conscience to my already weak oonscience, a double measure, a practical insurance, which ensures that I stay on the path to righteousness."

    There is no wrong in it :)

    Peace. It's been nice talking with you Bustalot :) Talk again soon.
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  9. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    in all religion there is love
    but in love there is no religion.

    Im not against any religion.
    And like Jacki Chan said in Karate kid 3 "there is no bad students, just bad teachers"

    and if you think about that, it keeps on going up the line infinitely basically. SO we cant blame anyone but the teacher, yet every teacher was a student at some point... so...
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  10. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    Peace to you Bustalot :)

    In the English language, it is sad to notice that there is only one word for love. It hardly does the word justice - in Arabic, there are many words to describe love, dependant on the type of love one is referring to. It is seen as un-eloquent to generalise these words into one word - ie: love, in Arabic, because the rich tapestry of the Arabic language can really pin down exactly what type of love one is referring to.

    There are way over ten words for love in Arabic. There is even the type of love which is strictly reserved for God. So in the case of Islam, there is religion in love too :) I can give you a more in depth answer if you so wish - but I think you get the point.

    Now, as for the teacher comment: there are good teachers, and bad teachers - same as good men and bad men.

    And yes, every teacher was a student at some point, but I hardly see how that helps you to make a point here. let me explain.

    Students of knowledge, aspire to learn knowledge to such a degree that they cannot help but act on that knowledge. And what is wisdom - if not the practical application of beneficial knowledge?

    Those who attain a high degree of wisdom become real teachers - as my teacher currently is, and so far, I hold him to be a very very good teacher indeed. His wisdom is such that he can guide me to understand myself better than I thought possible. And that's a big statement.

    You see, the human condition is such that one can think they know themselves, but what they see is a singular perspective. It's like walking around all day thinking "hmmm, I think I look good today" until someone points out that you have booger hanging from your nostril. Simple analogy there, but once again, I think you get the picture.

    Best,
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  11. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    @TERRA WRISTS ~ would you mind breaking down those words used to express various love types by their hierarchy of meaning? Please?
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  12. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    yes as complex as the english language is, its sure short on some stuff

    In my style of kung fu, our first and most improtant form is called Siu Nim Tau. The direct english translation is "little idea".... But what it means in our kung fu is basically "epiphany"

    'little idea' and 'epiphany' give off two very distinctive vibes....
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  13. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    I can try Galatea, but by no means is my Arabic at a good standard, I'm still learning.

    the Arabic language has one of the richest sets of Vocabularies in the world, probably more than any other language. (For example: the Arabs have over 1000 words just for describing the Camel, and over 60 different words for Love!) And the amazing bit is - every word has its own shade of meaning, so two words could be similar, but they both would have a slightly different implication in meaning.

    Arabic has no unnecessary words in it:

    Arabic is extremely concise i.e. A sentence of 7 words in English can be said in just 7 letters of Arabic! Example;

    English: 'Both are at war with each other.'

    Arabic: yu-Haarib-oon.


    Here are some word for love in Arabic, together with the usage, termed.

    Ishq : A passionate love which can consume

    Hayam : Passionate and infatuating love

    Gharam : Infatuating and unreasonable love

    Wajd : strong emotional love, can also be used to describe platonic love

    Walah : Incredibly passionate love

    Tatyum : obssessive love with a loved one, consummative

    Futun : Childish love, not developed, remeniscent of infatuation

    Ghazal : Light hearted, flirtatious love

    Shauqh : A lasting, Longing love with affection

    Lawaa : The love which makes on suffer in agony for a longing of their partner

    Sababa : ardent love

    Sabwa : sensual love

    Ghamart : when one is overwhelmed with emotion from love received.

    Walaa : Mad, crazy love - different from infatuation, justified.

    Shaghaf : Love born from a passion of something

    Hawaa : love born of affection and a passion combined

    Muwaddah : The love that exists between husband and wife that takes years to build on and comes thru a better understanding of eachother.

    The Arabic word "Hub": If we look at the letters that make up the word "Hub" in Arabic we find that two letters are used: Haa + Ba. The root meaning for the letter Haa is "life" and the root meaning for the letter Ba is "medium" = "H-B" a Life Medium. The word 'HuB' means 'Love' in Arabic, so someone you Love is your 'Life Medium' (an intermediate (middle/medium) person who you always turn to to share lifes joys and sadness). So hence, you would call your loved one "Habibi" for a male and "Habibti" for a female.

    These are just some, there are many more. Also, I did not place them in order of heirarchy. But I hoped this helped.

    Yes, this is exaclty the point i was making. Seemingly, the words "Little Idea" and "epiphany" have little in common with eachother, but combined with the correct understanding, they open up a new idea in the mind and heart which bring a deeper understanding into the intended meaning. This is something the |English language fails to do by its' very nature.

    Each language has an essence, that is unique. The discovery of the root essence will make you a master of the language, as you know exactly how the language works best. However, as languages change over time, so does the essence.

    Which is why, today, there are two Arabics spoke. We have Ammiyyah which is the modern Arabic,and Fus'haa whcih is the classical Arabic. When one listens to the modern Ammiyyah Arabic, it often sounds very crude and harsh to the untrained ear, and flows very fast with use of modern words in it.

    In contrast, when one listens to the Classical, Fus'haa Arabic, it is slow, deliberate and very beautiful to listen to, even to the untrained ear.
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  14. Alias3000

    Alias3000 Well-Known Member

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  15. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    Thank you very much, @TERRA WRISTS.

    Learning a language takes time, especially if it's complex.

    Wowzers, and I thought mandarin was one of the toughest languages out there.

    :scared:

    That's a lotta love. :funny:

    I'll draw a conclusion that words are based on the motive behind them, rather than simply lumping everything in one category.

    Interesting.

    Ty, it's more than helpful.

    Honestly, I wouldn't exactly blame the language, but the translators who seemingly start systematically translating based on far too literally instead of looking for the proper meaning.

    I'm still looking for a mathematical correlation between languages ~ kind of like the universal "rosetta stone" type thing.
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  16. Alias3000

    Alias3000 Well-Known Member

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    So does learning new fuck positions.
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  17. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    Keeping hope alive.
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  18. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    :) Arabic is actually quite easy to learn, but to master takes a lot of effort. Moreso than Mandarin most probably. I know people who have worked in Arabia for a year and came away speaking Arabic to a good standard.



    You're welcome Galatea :) And yes, you are correct, clarifying the intent behind the meaning of a word, thru a choice of examples to choose from in order to narrow down the intent accurately enough, is what the Arabic language excels at over any other language - save for Aramaic - but then again, Aramaic and Arabic are sister languages and therefore neither can be said to excel over the other. Unless you consider the fact that Arabic is still spoken today, whereas Aramaic is not. IN that case, I'd say Arabic excelled over Aramaic. But that's hardly a fair point to make.

    It does make me think though - in this modern age, are we becoming less able to express ourselves properly? Did the old languages have an advantage over the new ones? I really do think they did. The more I learn, the more I am convinced of it.



    Exaclty, the translations often make a mockery of the intent behind the original meanings. This is common in any language. I speak 4 languages and even I have trouble translating sentences which have a linguistic uniqueness that can never do the translation justice. What I end up with is a washed out, cheaper version of the original meaning, which has no depth to it.

    The beauty in language is the essence. Always the essence. And what rings true for one languages essence doesn't necessarily ring true in the translation.

    If you have any more questions regarding Arabic, I'd be happy to answer :)
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