Atheists actually bellieve in GOD

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Alias3000, Aug 8, 2012.

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  1. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    1) does knowing the truth matter to you? because if it does then it seems like you're insulating yourself against the possibility of your ideas being wrong by reasoning that you're happier thinking they're right, and thus possibly preventing yourself from discovering the truth. so if you think the probability argument is strong and worth of basing a belief system on, you shouldn't need to rationalize away the chance of being wrong by reasoning that your way of thinking makes you happier. either you think that way cause you think it's correct, or you're doing it to make yourself happy. combining those two approaches seems to indicate a lack of confidence in the former.

    2) i think you're straw-manning the opposition in an effort to make your ideology seem more appealing. "being an intellectual", "better be feared than loved." i think this is a caricature you're attacking to avoid having to confront serious opposition. both sides claim to have intellectual integrity, and you can be an intellectual or pose as an intellectual and land on either side of the debate. so maybe the root cause of the debate goes deeper than that.
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  2. TreHolla

    TreHolla Member

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    (i typed a pretty good original response and my weak netbook did the back button thing again.)

    anyhow, the original point i made was that I don't really care to be what one would consider an intellectual. sure it's nice to have a thoughtful, intelligent, intellectual conversation. but to be labeled one isn't really appealing to me. i could ask why and disprove everything by revealing that no one knows anything. Socrates taught us that.

    that doesn't mean i'm not interested in the truth. i have studied some science and what I've gathered from the different fields is pretty mind blowing to me. sciences attempt to explain that which already is, from my own understanding. biology, physics, astronomy, chemistry, revealed a divine order to me.

    i believe in my mind, body, spirit, heart, and soul that i; along with everyone else that gets to experience life on earth was created for a reason. from my own experiences, perspective, and understanding, which is constantly growing, changing, and evolving; still suggests to me that life and being on earth is not a cosmic evolutionary accident.

    i've gotten to read a lot about christianity, some about being a muslim, some stuff about buddhism, a little bit about taoism, rastafarianism, zoroaster you name it. and they all reveal the greatest truth that i've gathered thus far. and that's the analogy of the "three blind men and the elephant."

    we're all essentially experiencing life from our own perspectives which are affected by our emotions, intellects, environments, you get the picture. and all we know is what we know.

    as a fellow blind man touching the elephant; when i touch the elephant, i'm probably smiling and laughing because i'm thinking it feels funny. i'm wondering if it feels the same way all over. i want to touch more of it. i want to know if it makes noise.

    now when the other two blind men ask me about the elephant i'm not going to call them names, try to hurt them, or force them to agree with me. i'd ask them what they thought and what they felt. we can agree on some things and disagree on others. i'm still trying to learn more about the elephant as best as i can.

    each religion is a blind man. and a religion is simply a way of life. and knowing that some people's way of life is based on taking advantage of others, oppression, and hurting in the name of "survival" doesn't change mine. and mine is understanding that life is beautiful. we're all works of art. and blind. but to still have compassion for others because we're fellow blind men is the garden i'm referring to.
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  3. reverb

    reverb donny rockathought

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    First off. I was raised Irish Catholic and will never subject someone to the same nightmare.

    I am an atheist because I believe what you can show me, what I can touch, or scientifically explain to me.

    The story of Jesus Christ isn't a new or unique one. Its like the 8th story like his... one sec

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  4. reverb

    reverb donny rockathought

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    Religion is a security blanket. A way for people to explain why they act. And a way for people to handle he thought of death. That is all. A way to control the masses.

    Like I said the story of Jesus "or Buddha or Allah" is not original ones. For example... Look up the sun god Mirtha who was both from a virgin. In a barn on a winter stolsace and people brought him gifts. Before being killed and resurrected by his father. 1400 bc...

    Or look at Krishna or Horus. Even Budah was born from a virgin. Has 12 deciples. And crucified
    fed 500 from a bowl of bread...

    Religion ks bullshit. And if you can't see that your an idiot. If the only reason you don't steal or kill is because a book said not too. You need professional help. I don't commit murder cause if its u justified its wrong. No book need tell me that.
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  5. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    @ tre

    my question is still do you care about what it is you're actually touching (it might be an elephant, it might not be). because if you do, then you should care about the methods you're using to reach your conclusions. maybe creating a choice for yourself between "accident" and "god" isn't actually the best way to find the truth.
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  6. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    i dont agree with the second sentence here as a general statement.
    Religion does a lot of good and to say its all bullshit is ignoring that fact.

    there are branches of all religion that are different from each other even though they are under the same `blanket ` religion.
    look at the creationist christians, theyre hardcore view on the bible is way different than other christians. SOme branches are more tolerant than others.

    in my opinion tolerance and compassion are two of the most important virtues and you can perform both without religion. But you can also still perform both with religion, just depends on which branch of religion you are accepting.
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  7. reverb

    reverb donny rockathought

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    I was drunk so reading my post this morning I agree is was a mix of a rant and fact.

    Hold on and Ill reword.

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  8. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    i just wanted to hear myself speak...

    im aware that youre probably aware of what i said.
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  9. Carpe Noctem

    Carpe Noctem Neos Helios

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    If you believe in shit that can't be empirically proven..

    You're obviously not somebody who's guided by reason. And somebody who isn't guided by reason isn't likely to be persuaded by it, either.
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  10. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    excellent way to put it
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  11. TreHolla

    TreHolla Member

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    see. i think ya'll missed my point. a religion is a way of life. every person has a way of life. you can believe in star wars and live your life by the principles of star wars. and that would be the way you choose to live your life. your way of life. maybe you watch sex and the city and feel that their way of life is in line with the way you want to live. or maybe you read the 48 laws of power and watched scarface and decide you want to be big bossman whatever.

    it doesn't matter. it's all a way of life. you don't have to read a book to keep the ten commandments. and according to the bible jesus pretty much came to let us know all that mattered was believing in god with all your mind, soul, body, spirit, *whatever you may deem that to be* and to treat your neighbor the way you want to be treated.

    i watched zeitgeist too. so yeah i know that organized religions pervert simple ideas, and that things get lost in translation. you know like the game telephone? history, is told by the victors...let's keep going right?

    my original point is, being an intellectual and being able to wow you with all of my pontificating on religion; and how it's merely a tool to brainwash or control the masses, is a point that can be easily argued by an intellectual and i understand that.

    but for me personally; from what i've gathered from my own experience. is the following:

    life is the elephant; and EVERYONE, EVERYBODY, has a way of life. you can follow organized religion, read spiritual texts or not. you can not believe in anything and truly believe that life is a joke for the telling. it doesn't matter. it's what makes us blind. and we all have being blind in common, and that fact; dare i say it truth, is what binds and bonds us all together. to have compassion, be tolerant and understanding that we are all blind together, to me, is what love is. and god is love. to me...my understanding, my interpretation, my way of life.

    now you can call me crazy, say im ignorant, or you can talk about how dumb it must be to believe in something like that. but as blind and ignorant you can say i am, it's actually the same thing we have in common. so it's essentially the pot calling the kettle black.

    and if i can't laugh at myself, or have joy or love, for my fellow blindmen (humanity) then what good is it to be an intellectual? oddly enough this is expressed in the bible. 1Corinthians chapter 13.

    but christianity, islam, judaism, isms and schisms are always fighting in the name of god and have done horrible things. to the point i wouldn't want to associate myself with anything like an organized schism/religion.

    but yeah even if you've never read the bible in your life. don't believe in god. or think that what i'm saying is completely stupid mindless brainwashed drivel. at least take a couple of your precious nanoseconds and look up that passage from Corinthians.

    anyhow, buddhists to me are the most peaceful. they'd probably be the equivalent of koalas in the animal kingdom of religions. i like koalas.

    ignorance is bliss; but a wise man told me that "craziness is like heaven."
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  12. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    personally i dont need organized religion. Never have

    i like buddhist and yoga philosophy because it aligns with what i kinda thought when trying to surmise whats up with life

    my view of god being 'love' is more satisfying to me than him being a smiteful bastard leader of an elite club. This seems more realistic to me than a bearded man on a cloud watching over his angels who now are all in the heavenly choir or run the heavenly nursery for dead babies... shit sounds loony.

    i think i get that youre saying whatever you do, it doesnt matter. Its all the same in the end. Thats how i think of it anyway. No matter what religion or non religion, when it comes down to it the same shit goes down for everyone.

    Either everyone eventually gets into heaven or nobody does.(if there was such a thing)

    thats how i see it. God doesnt have a religion, it isnt a person or being of any kind. Doesnt hold a rule book for his VIP club. Doesnt hate.

    but even this line of thinking doesnt have all the answers. So its not like i feel ive got it down 100%.
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  13. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    here's my thing, though.

    forget about 'being perceived as an intellectual.' nobody is saying you need to care about that.

    what you should care about, if you care about the truth, is intellectual honesty and integrity. in other words, you should care about what methods you're using to reach a conclusion. not because it makes for a better image, but because it makes for better conclusions.

    for example:

    you mentioned zeitgeist in your post, as evidence that you know organize religions can distort... but do you know that youtube videos can distort? that ordinary people can and do distort and deceive? that you can even deceive yourself, by letting your confirmation bias go unchecked?

    you probably do realize in theory that this can happen, but to really realize it is to fact check serious claims before you take them seriously. case in point:

    Zeitgeist, the movie Debunked - Part One - Zeitgeist Exposed - Skeptic Project
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  14. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    my dad fuckin debunked a ton of zeitgeist

    same with down the rabbit hole
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  15. TreHolla

    TreHolla Member

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    yeah. the methods i've used to come to my conclusion is what ive mentioned numerous time as being my criteria.

    the best truth from my own experience and studying is the elephant analogy. which goes to encompass a little bit of all of the different philosophies and kind of explains life and people itself.

    except i choose to add, due to my own experience and from my own interpretation of life and the elephant, that we're all blind figuratively speaking. and that i'm not here to try and to hurt my fellow blindmen, or belittle them to feel more superior, when in reality i'm just as blind as the next blindmen.

    i may not agree with you, or touch the elephant the same way, or interpret the elephant the same, but i still love, have compassion for you, am tolerant of you and understanding of the fact that we're both still blind in the grand scheme of things.

    we can hear the same song and get different interpretations of it right? what makes it good or what makes it terrible. why it can cause you want to throw up, or why it makes me want to explode in audio ecstasy, but the song is still there to be listened to or rejected.

    we can choose to believe in god or not. whatever your idea of god is. you can believe in love and relationships, and fuzzy feelings. or you can reduce it to reasoning, survival, and biological experiences.

    yin and the yang. light and the dark. whatever it's all still part of the same circle...life.
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  16. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    Atheists intellectuals and scientists are starting to discuss the possibility of "the singularity" - they really need to facepalm themselves.

    Seems they are advocating a singularity outside of the space time continuum is responsible for the Big Bang - know what I'm getting at here? too funny...

    TheComeback Film will be out soon, here is the trailer

    COMEBACK The Movie | Trailer - YouTube

    COMEBACK The Movie | Teaser N°1 - YouTube

    2 and a half months to go for its release.
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  17. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    fuck, and interesting sounding film is coming out and it has to be in shitty french
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  18. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

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    That has always been the theory. Because before the Universe expanded with the Big Bang the laws of physics weren't up and running yet. If Science proves God through questioning then there would probably be a whole lot less Atheists around but I doubt they'd flock to being Christians or Jewish from this epiphany.
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  19. TERRA WRISTS

    TERRA WRISTS Global Faction

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    You speak for all atheists? :D I don't think so... Most of the athiests I've spoken to IRL tend to lean more towards the agnostic side than the atheist side of opinion. They've mistakenly labelled themselves atheists, and when I point out their flaw - they look embarrassed.

    Food for though mate.
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  20. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    ^Even that kind exists.
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