atheism leaves a cultural void

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by reggie_jax, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    Living up to the standard isn't a easy task, and man mustn't find truth from other men, he must find it in his heart and know it is true

    Luke 12:34
    For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

    For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness,& slander
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  2. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    You are a mess
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  3. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    i grew up with the habit of speaking to god in my head constantly throughout the day. a lot of the time i was just asking him to bend reality slightly in my favor (e.g. "don't let this light turn red on me"). of course this was just as effective as asking the light itself not to turn red. and whats worse, when he wouldn't answer the way i wanted i'd call him a cunt. in any case, once i lost my belief in god i continued to do this, though i could no longer really think that anyone will answer me. i think it's just a sign of desperation... when you perceive you are not in control of something you start petitioning your fate to improve itself.

    my only advice to you is don't base your belief or disbelief in god in what you think you stand to gain from it. either he exists or he doesn't. if he does exist, he doesn't owe you anything. if he doesn't, then the universe doesn't owe you anything either.
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  4. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    good response, i'll take most of it as a comment but there were a few parts i will respond to.

    in regard to the point that catholics are flashy and use human status symbols where as the israelites had a much more austere set up with a basic tabernacle and a hierarchy of priests... just for the sake of argument, is there a reason the ark needed to be plated with gold other than the fact that gold is a precious metal and has the symbol of high status attached to it?

    in regard to the meaning behind the rituals... i would argue that all rituals have meaning and even if they are based on false pretenses, many of them have good or understandable meanings for their practitioners. it's not exactly unique to offer up the first born of a flock or the first harvest of the year in sacrifice. other ancient near-eastern religions practiced the same sort of rituals but dedicated to different gods. even if those gods are false, can you really say that their rituals were all that different just based on that?
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  5. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    are you sure the word used here is "heart", and not "self".

    the nafs in arabic means self, and jihad against the self is the best kind, as the nafs is prone to temptations.

    :numaan:
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  6. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    It may be an issue with the board upgrade. I'm sure you didn't do anything to get banned. I'm seeing if we can fix your account.
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  7. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    It's probably closer to "mind." The word translated "heart" is equivalent to that in a lot of places in the hebrew bible.
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  8. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Good points...I saw the first one coming, not the second.
    About the arch;
    To add some thoughts I would have to say very little on that and will not speculate at this point, other than to say this is how the Most High wanted it to be done and I'm sure there are reasons. This may not be sufficient for you and that's fine...If I come across more I'll share up with you. Also the priest had very elaborate dress, but only the line of Aaron could wear it, not all people.

    About the first fruits....same on that. Not much to offer you. But all good things come from YAH, perhaps other cultures learned this from the nation of Israel. Could be they kept the idea and switched out the real Elohim for a false one. This happens a lot, mainstream Christianity keep the scriptures and tossed out YAH to replace it with many idols.
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  9. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    appreciate it. let me know.
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  10. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Reggie I have an experience to share with you related to this thread.

    As a child I had really close friends down the street from me. Today as adults we are still very close and more like family than childhood friends. We'd do everything together, sports (street hockey everyday after school for years...the whole block), build forts, capture the flag at night betwixt two huge yards set for base camps, sleep overs with endless video game nights, pretend war, stealing news papers then going door-to-door selling them. And when we got to the middle school years we'd camp out in the yard and have the girls from the other street come over and play truth or dare or try to get fresh and stupid stuff like that...normal stuff. In high school much of the same, until we all parted ways to grow up more.

    Their mom was a devout Catholic, their dad a distant war vet. He provided and let the mother and kids do the "church" thing. They went every Sunday and sometimes I'd tag along. Back then I did not differentiate between the many sects in Christianity, so going to a Catholic mass was about as standard and real as it got for me.

    I was never allowed to go up and eat the bread of "Christ" or sip the wine during the weekly communion, also known as the Lord's supper (more accurately breaking bread). How this ritual differed from what Messiah did is substantially different, and later I learned the Catholic version is more of a sinister rite flexed onto the people unwittingly. That aside, I sat back and watched all the 'good' people go up and eat and drink. My friends mother told me I could not participate because I was not baptized into the Catholic church, or part of the 'mother' church really.

    Often times I would go with my Nirvana shirt on, the one with the yellow smiley face and on the back read the word WHORE. After putting it on inside out I was good to go. And then sat in looking at the show in front of me. The alter boys decked out in robes and flashy accessories, the priests with delicate shit on and catered to like they were fragile ornaments. I noticed after a few times a sort of pattern emerged with ritualistic singing and praise, followed by a cheap and vague reading of scriptures to send the people back into the world stronger and more motivated to live in it, not to be set apart. This was every week, no break in that tradition.

    Kathy Hatch, my friends mom, eventually died of lung cancer in 2005. She smoked a ridiculous amount. We'd joke and call her Mrs. Hack. Nothing about her Catholic beliefs reflected in her walk. They are posed to be the ultimate authority under Messiah and nothing they did prepared her to live walking after YAH's own heart. It was not a real deal thing. It was just a tradition and a fake outlet biased on ritual and lies. Outside of church, she was a typical person fixed on doing what the world stresses to do at certain times. Buy when it's time, consume when it's time, conform to the wickedness of the world as per conditioning and receive it as truth. Do not stand up and think for yourself, allow 'they' or the 'experts' to do the math. Nothing about her walk reflected, and this is just my observation.

    After their dad passed away recently, I noticed too that my friends had dropped the game of church long ago in high school...but it just dawned on me that they did. Nothing about their traditions were real. Nothing the Catholic church did could break the hold the world had on them.

    The Catholic church is the world. They are not removed from it, following the true lamb where ever he goes, nor are they teaching their constitutes any knowledge or understanding about the Most High. They simply do not know him.

    It all makes sense of course. Because the Catholics worship another god, but squeeze him into the truth. Nothing can stop the truth, so it is taken and reshaped. This all makes more sense when YAHUWAH told Israel we would scatter them to lands their forefathers did not know, to serve their gods

    Jeremiah 16:13
    Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.

    Deuteronomy 28:64
    64 And YAHUWAH shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

    This land that they know not was the land of the Gentiles. The gods they serve are the god of the Gentiles. This is what the world teaches in all sects of Mainline Christianity, the gods of man. And to me it comes of as little surprise now that I have studied under true Israel. YAHUWAH has always had a remnant around, even to this day. While not all Hebrew's know much, some do. Most are awakening to their identity and know Christianity is fake and they are Israel, that's it though there is way more to this. These are the people (the covenanted people) that hold the oracles of YAHUWAH and are able to teach both Israelites and Gentiles alike the way of YAHUWAH with power and knowledge; enough to change you and open your eyes, if it be your lot to receive it according to YAH's mercy and grace at this time.

    I no longer stand amazed or judge the truth of YAHUWAH, creator of all things, off of what Christianity teaches. How many of us do this ? And it's no wonder really. A normal man can see the hypocrisy and note truth is not with them. They teach the world through the scope of mans understanding.

    Isaiah 10:2
    And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon YAHUWAH, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.


    Isaiah 11:11-12
    11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that YAHUWAH shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

    12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

    Jerimiah 23:3
    And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.


    I have recently spoke with my friends. Kevin just got married in April of this year. Kenny is still Kenny. They are far removed from the man made religion their mother put them through as children and are seemingly no different from the average atheist. What they have been taught is not truth nor the power contained in it. That is the difference. I must be careful not to underestimate the delivery of YAHUWAH, because he uses many ways to deliver those truly seeking him.

    YAHUWAH is reality. He is our creator. Wonderfully and fearfully he made man and all known things.

    I hope this helped you in some way, though I don't want this to be taken as a attempt to sway you. just a short testimony.

    And oddly enough, Kevin got married at the church his mother was buried at (I was a Paul Bearer). Traditions are a funny thing. We must not follow after the traditions of men, but after truth unmolested by them that have taken it to justify their gods, as the truth is unstoppable. Just ask emperor Constantine in 300AD.

    Every world view, even yours, stems back and is recorded and expounded on in the scriptures as to it's source. Nothing is knew under the sun.

    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
    test
  11. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Reggie I have an experience to share with you related to this thread.

    As a child I had really close friends down the street from me. Today as adults we are still very close and more like family than childhood friends. We'd do everything together, sports (street hockey everyday after school for years...the whole block), build forts, capture the flag at night betwixt two huge yards set for base camps, sleep overs with endless video game nights, pretend war, stealing news papers then going door-to-door selling them. And when we got to the middle school years we'd camp out in the yard and have the girls from the other street come over and play truth or dare or try to get fresh and stupid stuff like that...normal stuff. In high school much of the same, until we all parted ways to grow up more.

    Their mom was a devout Catholic, their dad a distant war vet. He provided and let the mother and kids do the "church" thing. They went every Sunday and sometimes I'd tag along. Back then I did not differentiate between the many sects in Christianity, so going to a Catholic mass was about as standard and real as it got for me.

    I was never allowed to go up and eat the bread of "Christ" or sip the wine during the weekly communion, also known as the Lord's supper (more accurately breaking bread). How this ritual differed from what Messiah did is substantially different, and later I learned the Catholic version is more of a sinister rite flexed onto the people unwittingly. That aside, I sat back and watched all the 'good' people go up and eat and drink. My friends mother told me I could not participate because I was not baptized into the Catholic church, or part of the 'mother' church really.

    Often times I would go with my Nirvana shirt on, the one with the yellow smiley face and on the back read the word WHORE. After putting it on inside out I was good to go. And then sat in looking at the show in front of me. The alter boys decked out in robes and flashy accessories, the priests with delicate shit on and catered to like they were fragile ornaments. I noticed after a few times a sort of pattern emerged with ritualistic singing and praise, followed by a cheap and vague reading of scriptures to send the people back into the world stronger and more motivated to live in it, not to be set apart. This was every week, no break in that tradition.

    Kathy Hatch, my friends mom, eventually died of lung cancer in 2005. She smoked a ridiculous amount. We'd joke and call her Mrs. Hack. Nothing about her Catholic beliefs reflected in her walk. They are posed to be the ultimate authority under Messiah and nothing they did prepared her to live walking after YAH's own heart. It was not a real deal thing. It was just a tradition and a fake outlet biased on ritual and lies. Outside of church, she was a typical person fixed on doing what the world stresses to do at certain times. Buy when it's time, consume when it's time, conform to the wickedness of the world as per conditioning and receive it as truth. Do not stand up and think for yourself, allow 'they' or the 'experts' to do the math. Nothing about her walk reflected, and this is just my observation.

    After their dad passed away recently, I noticed too that my friends had dropped the game of church long ago in high school...but it just dawned on me that they did. Nothing about their traditions were real. Nothing the Catholic church did could break the hold the world had on them.

    The Catholic church is the world. They are not removed from it, following the true lamb where ever he goes, nor are they teaching their constitutes any knowledge or understanding about the Most High. They simply do not know him.

    It all makes sense of course. Because the Catholics worship another god, but squeeze him into the truth. Nothing can stop the truth, so it is taken and reshaped. This all makes more sense when YAHUWAH told Israel we would scatter them to lands their forefathers did not know, to serve their gods

    Jeremiah 16:13
    Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.

    Deuteronomy 28:64
    64 And YAHUWAH shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

    This land that they know not was the land of the Gentiles. The gods they serve are the god of the Gentiles. This is what the world teaches in all sects of Mainline Christianity, the gods of man. And to me it comes of as little surprise now that I have studied under true Israel. YAHUWAH has always had a remnant around, even to this day. While not all Hebrew's know much, some do. Most are awakening to their identity and know Christianity is fake and they are Israel, that's it though there is way more to this. These are the people (the covenanted people) that hold the oracles of YAHUWAH and are able to teach both Israelites and Gentiles alike the way of YAHUWAH with power and knowledge; enough to change you and open your eyes, if it be your lot to receive it according to YAH's mercy and grace at this time.

    I no longer stand amazed or judge the truth of YAHUWAH, creator of all things, off of what Christianity teaches. How many of us do this ? And it's no wonder really. A normal man can see the hypocrisy and note truth is not with them. They teach the world through the scope of mans understanding.

    Isaiah 10:2
    And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon YAHUWAH, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.


    Isaiah 11:11-12
    11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that YAHUWAH shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

    12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

    Jerimiah 23:3
    And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.


    I have recently spoke with my friends. Kevin just got married in April of this year. Kenny is still Kenny. They are far removed from the man made religion their mother put them through as children and are seemingly no different from the average atheist. What they have been taught is not truth nor the power contained in it. That is the difference. I must be careful not to underestimate the delivery of YAHUWAH, because he uses many ways to deliver those truly seeking him.

    YAHUWAH is reality. He is our creator. Wonderfully and fearfully he made man and all known things.

    I hope this helped you in some way, though I don't want this to be taken as a attempt to sway you. just a short testimony.

    And oddly enough, Kevin got married at the church his mother was buried at (I was a Paul Bearer). Traditions are a funny thing. We must not follow after the traditions of men, but after truth unmolested by them that have taken it to justify their gods, as the truth is unstoppable. Just ask emperor Constantine in 300AD.

    Every world view, even yours, stems back and is recorded and expounded on in the scriptures as to its source. Nothing is knew under the sun.

    Ecclesiastes 1:9
    The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
    test
  12. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    opps, double posted that. my bad.
    test
  13. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    i can relate to the things said about the catholic church.. when i was there recently i didn't receive communion either, even though i am baptized and have received it before. i don't believe and consider it disrespectful to pretend. nonetheless this will always earn you curious looks.

    in regard to the secular people the church produces... i notice this too, though i don't think it was always that way. they radically changed things in the 50's or 60's with the introduction of "vatican ii." i won't say much about that since my knowledge is limited. but i am pretty sure there was a time when catholics were among the most extreme religious adherents.

    i will say though that more than some newer sects of christianity, there's a major cultural element to catholicism, which is probably why secular people brought up in the church still identify as catholics.

    as for your testimony, i can't lie to you, it's a waste of time. i don't believe the idea that the african slaves were the descendants of the ancient israelites is even remotely plausible. it's understandable why they would latch onto that identity given the stories of moses leading his people from bondage though.
    test
  14. x calibur

    x calibur

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    I'll unban your main account as soon as mod privileges get sorted out on here.

    anyway, religion definitely serves a communal role as something that brings all different people together, and links generations through tradition. this can be seen in many different types of world religions. it can serve this purpose even for those who don't believe strongly in it. I would say that Shinto is an example of a religion that is not really strongly believed in, but its traditions play a very influential role in Japan.

    European cathedrals literally took generations to build. that sort of long view is needed to progress.
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  15. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    thanks but memento already took care of it.
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  16. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    yea.. it has served that role. the question is what to do about it. what could replace the ritualistic, cultural and symbolic role that religion has had going forward? assuming superstition gets left by the wayside, what can be used to fulfill the same role within a materialistic framework?
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  17. x calibur

    x calibur

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    actually the Admin fixed it, but yea.

    and it's honestly difficult to answer that. I brought up Shinto as an effective example, because not many Japanese literally believe in Amaterasu and the Kami, but the traditions and festivals associated with it are very popular and serve that function. but this is not as potent as a religion with an emphasis on beliefs and dedication to certain ideals.

    secular humanism is one idea. maybe it could be imbued with a reverence for learning or philosophy. the problem with philosophy, though, is that it demands that you rise up to its level. religion on the other hand has succeeded in no small part because it is inclusive. it welcomes all sorts of people in, as long as they embrace certain ideas and rules.

    atheism will never truly compete with religion unless it can come up with a viable alternative. but that's definitely not easy. especially since religion offers transcendent rewards and punishments, designed to override worldliness. it seems impossible to do that for secular humanism, except maybe an emphasis on future and legacy.
    test
  18. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    There already is a viable alternative. The religion without the faith.

    Catholics are a great example. But I personally can point out the Muslims. The majority of whom don't believe in GOD's word, and don't read Arabic, and only follow things through pressure of culture and law. But with no faith to back it up.

    A state of mind with no GOD is human's natural state.
    test
  19. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Good points reggie...I had thought before that the African Americans were looking for an identity and latched on to that too...it's understandable. Upon further investigation my whole foundation was changed.

    only one peoples have ever been successfully enslaved for hundreds of years, hundreds. Scripture gots that on lock...Remember this book and chapter. Deuteronomy chapter 28...the whole chapter. All the prophets and most books expound on this issue too. again, don't look into to it wasting your time, but if you want to muse over others beliefs peep it out so you know at least were we coming from.



    very interesting...50 and 60's was a radical change in all points of society during these times, even the chruch was penetrated.
    test
  20. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    i didn't mean it was wasting my time, but rather wasting yours. i didn't want to be rude but i couldn't think of a nicer way of putting it. even if there are biblical verses which correlate perfectly with the experiences of african slaves, that wouldn't make the slightest difference to me. i judge the claims based on their historical plausibility and not on how well they match up with the scriptures.
    test

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