"Art" Is Not the Opposite of "Fun"(The study of art, video games, and battle rap.)

Discussion in 'Battle Video Archives' started by JobOne, Aug 9, 2011.

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  1. JobOne

    JobOne Man of the Hour

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    Okay maybe this video doesn't talk about battle rap at all but I decided to share a video about the study of games and art in general.

    The Escapist : Video Galleries : Extra Credits : "Art" Is Not the Opposite of "Fun"

    I just threw in battle rap because it's something that has been discussed in BVA, that studying and dissecting lyrics take the fun out of battle rap. This makes the case that study of art makes it more fun and engaging, not less. And that people caring too much about a medium doesn't ruin it, it's the people who hardly care for it at all that do.




    Side Note:
    I've been wanting to share this series for a long time but I think it gets into topics that people in here might not find all that interesting but if you are interesting in gaming and thoughts about the industry that drives it, I would probably say it's the most thought provoking, and possibly the most important web series for the game industry.

    The Escapist : Video Galleries : Extra Credits

    I definitely recommend it. If people are interested, I'll even drop a few of my favorite episodes to check out.
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  2. fresco 5

    fresco 5 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that the study of the intricacies of lyrics make them way more interesting

    otherwise people wouldn't appreciate things like wordplay / puns.

    I'm wondering who disagrees with that? I'm pretty sure that's the general consensus, especially around here. There are some people who may ridicule some of the lower tier rappers who are only studying one small aspect of rapping and the rest of it is completely neglected. That becomes boring really fast.


    the study of lyrics is crazy interesting to me, especially in older non-rap songs where meanings are left up in the air and sometimes are completely metaphorical and purposely hidden
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  3. JobOne

    JobOne Man of the Hour

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    The most recent example I remember is ErikForeman made a thread about associative word play and how it was different from other wordplay like double entendres even though many consider it the same thing.

    There were a lot of people in that thread that were upset that people were breaking wordplay down to terms or even studying it at all was too nerdy and taking the enjoyment out of lines.

    As someone to enjoys layers of meaning in many different mediums, I appreciate the study of lyrics and even nuances that seem trivial to others. While I very much can take things for how they are and enjoy something without wondering why I enjoy it, or how it works, I realize there is merit in study, whether I care or not.

    I just don't think all people feel the same way.
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  4. fresco 5

    fresco 5 Well-Known Member

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    yeah well thats true. a lot of people enjoy icecream but they don't all want to understand how its developed or the science of how its manufactured because that would be too technical and "nerdy". Those are the type of people who don't belong on a ice cream discussion forum.

    music and more specifically rap / battling is no different.
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  5. JayLegend

    JayLegend Jay Ledgem

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  6. fresco 5

    fresco 5 Well-Known Member

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    and a lot of the people who try to say not to read into things to much are typically using that as a cop out because they favor one rapper over another and don't want to look at concrete evidence that proves that they're biased.


    those people are called idiots.



    However I do think that people can appreciate great technicality and intricacy in things without understanding them.... but there are certain things that people are tricked about. I don't know if you're familiar with the loudness war:

    [youtube]TqQX3htzhSY[/youtube]


    if you don't watch it, its basically a video showing how all songs on the radio today are normalized to maximum volume at the insistence of the major record companies. This is becuase humans perceive something that is louder to sound better. However when you make everything maximum volume, you almost completely sacrifice dynamics.

    The same goes for rap battles with simple jokes. People tell basic jokes, and people may or may not think they're somewhat amusing but since they're at a rap battle they're in a place where they feel like they're supposed to laugh out loud so theyre inclined to do so. When people watch these battles back, the fact that other people are laughing or reacting in some way at that part makes them think that they're supposed to too.

    The same goes for street rappers when the crowd is biased and only reacts for one guy, or some very very basic line is somehow portrayed as being the lyrical holy grail. There are alot of things that the average person is going to be confused about and tricked into "buying". so if you don't study whatever art you're interested in, then you really have no right to comment about it at all.

    I find this very difficult to express when I talk to black people who don't rap. For some reason it seems like every black person thinks that they're an expert on hip hop, because it came from their culture, and that they should give me advice. This is obviously not the case, but yeah. There are a lot of people out there who think they know what they're talking about when it comes to rap battles but they truly don't know shit and they're honestly just trying to convince you of their own biased opinion which usually is based on where the rapper is from or how much they dislike the opposing rapper.



    oh well
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  7. 1Nosyrag

    1Nosyrag Member

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    I just don't like it when some people automatically place "deep/layered" shit on the highest pedastal, and unfortunately? That's how arts always been. No one dares place something that is kick ass for the sake of being kick ass over something that's ultra complex and esoteric, like wtf man.
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  8. fresco 5

    fresco 5 Well-Known Member

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    yeah you're right but we're not saying become a snob about it. but studying something and understanding how something works makes it more fun and enjoyable.

    it'd be pretty gay to be like "oh that didn't have 13 multi syllables without any being forced so its really not that good".
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  9. Slick Jeronimo

    Slick Jeronimo OTBVA Senator Nominee

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    breaking down lyrics after the fact is fine by me but during a live event, if my brain is able to process fast enough while i can still pay attention to whats coming up next then cool but if not, well... im pretty sure it will get broken down after the fact.

    you still gotta rap tho, with out rappity rapp rap all those lines are just for comedians and clever shit talkers
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  10. JobOne

    JobOne Man of the Hour

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    Interesting video. I never recognized that music today has the volume maximized for loudness but it makes sense. When I spin records I do notice I often kick up the bass and treble for many songs just to give it some extra punch, otherwise some songs can sound flat.

    The difficulty with rap/battles/art in general is that since parts of it are so subjective, people dismiss the technical aspects, which are objective to a far greater degree. People's ignorance and stubbornness make things almost futile to discuss at length when comparing, say, why one line is technically superior to another when you can't even arrive on the same page. Sometimes it can read like blind people arguing what emotion the color of the room conveys.

    I don't care so much if someone has different preferences on what they enjoy from a battle but if people want to discuss why something is better than something else, they should be able to support it with more than just a feeling. They should be able to break it down in terms everyone can understand.

    It's like when there is a style clash, where two battlers have very different focuses in their writing and performances. Who wins becomes a matter of preference. If you have two battlers who have similar styles or focus on similar aspects where it is easier to compare the elements of both, you can determine who is better at what much easier. If they both use lots of punchlines, you can compare punchlines. If they both are using wordplay, you can compare who has more clever lines.

    People roll their eyes at the thought of having to use a punchline counter to judge a battle but we do it anyways, those are the things we look for. We have 4 big reactions during a round for one person and 1 for the other, we will remember that, whether we attach the actual number of times to it or not. People divide a battle into who won what round, because it's easier to gauge that the whole battle overall not because it's the best way necessarily. That's all just convention anyways.

    We could watch a battle and know who we thought won, but we have to be able to know how to communicate it to others why we thought what we did. The less you can speak the language, the harder it is going to be for you to communicate.
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  11. Twinmania

    Twinmania Maybe we don't exist....

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    I agree that studying art makes it more fun, not less. I condone in breaking down battle bars. but Erik Foreman's thread was just..... sad, "it's not wordplay it's associative wordplay wahhhh, wahhhhh" snobby and pointless.
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  12. 6thSense

    6thSense Ashwin

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    Mint chocolate chip appreciation thread

    icecreamkid452: i think mint chip flavor is really underrated. its versatile tbh

    Vanilla_killa: no its not faggot. If i want mint, ill just pop a tic tac. Its not even in my top 20.

    icecreamkid452: dead @ mint not being top 20 when ur favorite icecream is vanila...most overrated icecream ever.

    Vanilla_killa: everyone was hyping it up and when i finally went and tried it and wow...............NOTHING HAPPENED.

    Frescoclean: @ickid452 ignore vanilakilla..hes da biggest vanilla dickrider on his board..he a lame.

    - from a typical thread on ice cream forums..fresco posts there daily..he puts up EG numbers tbh
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  13. JobOne

    JobOne Man of the Hour

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    I like how battle memes made it to the ice cream board. Hollow has a lot of fans.
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  14. 6thSense

    6thSense Ashwin

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    Yeah, Fresco put them onto Hollow in their off topic section. They love Hollow.
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  15. JobOne

    JobOne Man of the Hour

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    Think you just gon run up on me and pop the chrome?
    To beat me, you're gon need a scoop of chocolate mocha, rocky road, take lots of caramel sauce and load it all on a waffle cone.


    Did anyone watch the video? I was just trying to make this a more generalized discussion and not just specifically about battle rap. I just used that as a reference point since it applies to that as well.
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  16. 6thSense

    6thSense Ashwin

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    To beat me u gon need internet with high speed
    Live streams, clear eyes, visine, typeZ and his wifey
    High beams, science geeks from ivies times 3
    And rhymeschemes.......ABOUT ICECREAM

    On topic : u know what..i realized u cant talk about rap battles here beyond a certain depth...anyone whoever pays attention to what i type they'd know thats how i talk (nuances about rhythm mainly cuz thats completely ignored ) ..but it becomes pointless cuz no one else thinks like that or understand or care about it..so i cut it down a little bit. its frustrating..but shit has soo many new fans now that its bound to happen. probably Slick Ick is the only other dude who talks with that depth. Forget talking about intricacies..when it comes to rhythm, its a shame we dont even touch the surface when rap is all about it.. lyrics themselves do get analyzed here considerably more tho. But theres room to discuss lyrics at a way deeper level too. Cuz generic "bodybag" or "murder" or "close battle" by every poster gets boring..nothing wrong with it..but there needs to be a balance.

    Same with video games or whatever im guessing i dont play games tho..
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  17. TenFold

    TenFold Planet Rock Nano-Bot

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    pretty good watch..


    -10
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  18. ZeroByDivide

    ZeroByDivide gg

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    I wrote a long post but then realized I was going on a tangent.

    If you're really into battles you should have a certain understanding of the technical aspects and be able to analyze and articulate them.

    With most artistic mediums though, I find that there is a point where over-analysis becomes detrimental. The purpose of art is to resonate with the viewer or listener on a certain emotional level. Dissecting the technicalities isn't always going to help you "understand" it better. Rather, it might even take away from the intended impact.

    It's like when people look at a painting and try to extract some sort of meaning or social commentary from it. Sometimes it's just supposed to be aesthetically pleasing.

    I'm speed reading through this topic so I might be wrong.
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  19. Elaquent

    Elaquent Gill Breathing

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    studying, analyzing a medium is cool.
    OVERanalyzing a medium is some cornball shit, and thats what takes the fun out of the medium.
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  20. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    People are going to be dumb about their opinions as long as dumb opinions are encouraged. By dumb opinions I mean having an opinion with no backup and not having the balls to explain yourself. I think as far as battle fans are concerned, there are way more people who under-analyze things than over-analyze.

    SERIOUSLY if you guys are irritated by people with ignorant ass opinions who don't study into what they are listening to, you're going to have to have to have to call them out on it, and be prepared to explain own opinion. If you're just "not in the mood to argue" then stop worrying about stupid opinions.

    This board has the worst habit of being persistently argumentative in a condescending manner while at the same time being almost anti-confrontational. You mad?/TL;DR/It's just a battle bro = I'm too scared to actually argue with you, as you probably have a point and I don't. People call Choppa a troll, but the fact is, he ALWAYS explains his position and brings real valid points. Whether or not his arguments are in jest is irrelevant, he actually has points.

    Like seriously, some of ya'll can lurk through this board for hours and hours and not type more than a couple sentences defending why you think so and so sucks in response to someones real reasons for why someone doesn't suck? In any scenario, you should consider not telling people your opinion if you don't care enough to explain it.

    "Bro yeah I see wut you're saying but, I don't have any valid reasons I'm just going to call you a faggot and still maintain my dumbass opinion"
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