Are men objectifying women or are women objectifying themselves?

Discussion in 'Ladies Lounge' started by Ignorant, Jun 4, 2007.

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  1. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Playboy magazine is run by Heffner's wife and daughter. Most porn companies are owned and/or ran by women. Tyra Banks is the executive producer of America's Next Top Model. An overwhelming majority of fashion designers who choose these skinny, malnourished girls to model their clothes are female. Women line up by the thousands eager to show off their secrets and get paid for it. Girls are way more critical of another female's physical appearance than men are. They judge everything from the hair down to the toenail polish... and honeydip is automatically dismissed if her shoes don't match her purse.

    So how in the hell are men objectifying women????
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  2. Teen Prodigy

    Teen Prodigy Short2003's e-child

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    The answer is both.

    and the reason for that is because the relationship is dialectic.
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  3. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Okay, well who's doing the most damage? And who has the most power to stop it?

    The laws are fair now... well, for the most part when it comes to gender equality... women aren't property, they have rights, and nobody is holding a gun to their heads... yet they still objectify themselves. Can men still be blamed for that?

    [Psst: on some nights, I see just as many female patrons in strip clubs as I do male... so they want to see ass and titties shaking, too]
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  4. Teen Prodigy

    Teen Prodigy Short2003's e-child

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    I can't say who is doing the most damage because the relationship is dialectical.

    Men create the physical expectations for women, but women shape them by constantly reproducing them in many of the ways you've already mentioned.

    It takes two.
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  5. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    I feel you, TP... I like it when people can think objectively on this issue instead of just taking sides... kudos to you.
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  6. Teen Prodigy

    Teen Prodigy Short2003's e-child

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    Thanks.

    I'm waiting for the ladies to weigh in though... in both threads ( this one and the one I posted)
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  7. samii so sexii

    samii so sexii ..sunkist siren..

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    I feel as if there is a standard as to what is beautiful and desirable, and that women are bending over backwards to live up to that standard.

    By participating in extra curricular activities such as porn, or modeling, or stripping it gives them a sense of power. Plus they get paid for it. If you only made minimum wage doing porn, I'd bet the farm that there would be a lot less porn out there. But not only are they paid, they are given the power associated with fame.

    Now I'm not diverting attention away from the original question, so yes I believe women objectify themselves. But I understand why. My mother was not taught how to work. She wasn't told to go to college and the value of an education wasn't stressed to her. When she was in high school her only ambition was to be a mother - because that is what she was taught to do. By the age of 16 she did that. It's an understatement to say that most women or girls were/are ill prepared for todays status quo.

    I say that to say this: a lot of people, when in positions where they have few options, use whatever is at their disposal to survive. And the easiest among those when you're a woman is your sexuality.

    My mom didn't tell me to go to school. I don't understand finances or credit card interest, and I wasn't taught a skill or trade. But I do know how to dance and take a good picture. So if someone paid you $5000 in one night to dance (naked of course), or take a picture (fully clothed of course) wouldn't you do it??
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  8. UnbrokeN

    UnbrokeN Well-Known Member

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    yeah they re all a bunch of dykes...
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  9. MiSt_Of_CoNfUsIoN

    MiSt_Of_CoNfUsIoN Ray of Sunshine

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    Just a small side note that bugs the shit out of me. Tyra Banks is now all about " love yourself the way you are" but I'll be damned if she didn't throw a hissy fit about anyone calling her fat or saying she gained some weight.. So love yourself the way you are regardless of what others think but don't be fat. I dunno I just got some serious mixed messages when she first came out talking about those damn pictures.

    And its both, but women I think are worse than men or maybe its just that I expect it from men so its more common to hear it from them than it is another female.
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  10. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    ^Tyra Banks isn't that bright... beautiful girl and well-spoken, but she's really not smart.

    The ones who blame patriarchy for everything will tell you that it all started with men and that the reason women squabble amongst each other and judge one another harshly is because of their competition for men. I think there should come a time when people should start to take responsibility for their own actions. Men have to compete with one another to get women and most of us usually respect a code of not hatin' a brother who is successful at gettin' his... MOST of us, mind you... but with women, the hating is far worse.
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  11. Teen Prodigy

    Teen Prodigy Short2003's e-child

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    ^ Part of that is because, for women, looking good is a more serious requirement. There are more criteria for what a "well-kept" woman is supposed to look like, in the eyes of men and in their own eyes. There is also a greater difference, I feel, between a woman's public face and a woman's private face, speaking in terms of what she has to go through to "look good" versus what she has to do to just look the way she normally does, the facade is much thicker... I think.

    That is part of the reason ( but probably not even close to the entire reason) why women hate on other women, because they have a more intimate sense of what the criteria is supposed to be, there are things men can get away with among other men that women cannot get away with among other women, from the standpoint of superficial judgement. Because some women try so hard to make themselves look presentable on a daily basis.. sometimes even in spite of themselves.. when they see another woman who is making less of an effort, the natural thing to do is to critique: " look at those shoes" " look at her hair"

    Young black women might be the worst where this is concerned, at least in my experience/opinion.
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  12. MiSt_Of_CoNfUsIoN

    MiSt_Of_CoNfUsIoN Ray of Sunshine

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    Amen. Agreed 100% on that. I used to be really really horrible at this exact thing. Running my mouth about other girls mainly because I didn't like myself. I'm not gonna sit here and act like things like that never come out of my mouth now, but I make a serious effort to check my attitude and/or jealousy and flip it into giving them a compliment.
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  13. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    Still, WHY is that women are so detail-oriented in their critique of each other?

    Where does this fierce jealousy come from?
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  14. MiSt_Of_CoNfUsIoN

    MiSt_Of_CoNfUsIoN Ray of Sunshine

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    Deep rooted self esteem issues. Well at least thats where mine came from on the detail oriented critique.. I think thats just because women are detail oriented in general so it carries over.
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  15. Teen Prodigy

    Teen Prodigy Short2003's e-child

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    They are detail oriented because of societal conditioning. They've always had to do the tedius work that men thought they were too important to do-- that's why they are detail oriented, but I guess that's another thread.

    It has to do with self-esteem, but for most females.. I think it only relates to self esteem on a surface level.. not so much "deep rooted". I really think it all boils down to what I said in my other post... but I know that can't be all of the equation.
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  16. samii so sexii

    samii so sexii ..sunkist siren..

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    self esteem and competition. the girl that you may think is just beneath you, looks wise, is the same girl that can walk away with the guy you want.

    for example, when i was with my ex, i had a problem with him being cool with his ex. under normal circumstances i know im bad. but while everything was going on i felt he was attracted to her, therefore her being more desirous than me, or me being inadequate. omg and she was white so my world was rocked (you guys already know i had some issues with that shit lol). so it ate away at me for a time, and i wanted to pin point what it was about her that just made her so special. and i couldn't. which then made me more mad because i couldn't understand why he liked her more.

    now in hindsight, maybe he didn't like her more. maybe they really were just friends. i'll never know the truth. but i made my brain play out every possible negative scenario as to why or how she could have been better than me.

    females have a lot of untapped power. a lot of women don't feel beautiful unless a man tells them they are. a lot of women don't feel like they're worth anything unless they have boyfriends. that's why i think some women objectify themselves because that's one of the ways they have or can manipulate their power (sex appeal).
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  17. MiSt_Of_CoNfUsIoN

    MiSt_Of_CoNfUsIoN Ray of Sunshine

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    True. The ironic part in the first sentence is that if a woman does feel beautiful without having to have a man tell her so then it sometimes gets considered being concieted.. Funny how things get twisted. You can feel sexy when, where, and how he says...lol Riiiight.
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  18. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    Samii, why is that women think when a guy chooses another girl over her, that it's always about looks?

    We men aren't that shallow. We like girls for more than looks or big booties. Remember what Kanye said? "The prettiest people do the ugliest things." Some pretty women are just straight up bitches and we don't want to be bothered with that... after we nut... so we move on to the next girl... the cool, friendly, intelligent one who may not be all that pretty, but is fun to be around, because she isn't needy and shallow and argumentative... and sometimes, she's a lot freakier than the pretty, high-maintenance one who refuses to go down on us... so it's usually a lot more than looks. Just giving you the scoop.


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  19. I agree with koncious on this one.

    men arent so one tracked to pick women just because of looks so its sometimes pointless to think about it in that way when wondering why he wasnt into you. having said that, many men will overlook bad character traits if she is a dime.

    I met a beautiful looking girl once, we went on a date but her attitude put me right off.
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  20. UnbrokeN

    UnbrokeN Well-Known Member

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    [youtube]-dGYXGnSeBM[/youtube]
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