Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Yahunyahti, Apr 1, 2007.

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  1. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Continued . . .

    Ah, I know that Christians often find ways to argue when they are clearly wrong so I will provide more Prophecies of King Mashiach. Many men were Mashiach (Messiah) or Anointed. Many, many men received the Anointing (Mashiach) but only one will be King Mashiach. There is a HUGE difference and while Yeshua was Mashiach (Anointed) he was NOT, I repeat he was NOT the King Mashiach and he even said, "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." The King Mashiach will bring World Peace.

    1 Samuel 2:10 "Those who oppose the LORD will be shattered. He will thunder against them from heaven; the LORD will judge the ends of the earth. 'He will give strength to his king (Melech) and exalt the horn of his anointed (Mashiach).'

    (This is a reference to Melech Mashiach (King Mashiach). Melech is the Hebrew word for King and Mashiach is the Hebrew for Anointed. Mashiach Melech would be the proper way of saying it and it would mean "Anointed King" . . . Yeshua was not anointed as King. When Pilate asked him, "Are you the King of the Jews?" Yeshua replied, "Those are your words, not mine." Then Pilate became angry and said, "Am I a Jew!?")

    Here is where we see a shift:

    Daniel 12:1-3
    "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of the nations until then. But at that time your people - everyone whose name is found written in the book - will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever."

    Matthew 24:21
    "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now - and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect - if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lighting that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather."

    Daniel called Mashiach "Michael" who was considered the Archangel for Israel and the protector of the people. It wasn't a literal Angel.
    Here Yeshua is speaking of the same event . . . yet he speaks of the King Mashiach and calls him the "Son of Man" . . . now, this confuses Christians because they think Son of Man was an exclusive title for Yeshua. It wasn't. Son of Man was a term that ALL Prophets used to refer to themselves.

    Ezekiel 2:1 "He said to me, 'Son of man, stand up on your feet and I will speak to you.'" (Here Ezekiel is being called Son of man. Was Ezekiel Melech Mashiach (King Messiah)?)

    Ezekiel 39:1 "Son of man, prophesy against God and say:" (Here God is talking to Ezekiel and calling him "Son of man.")

    Ezekiel 38:1 "The word of the Lord came to me: 'Son of man, set your face against Gog.'"

    Ezekiel 37:11 "Then he said to me: 'Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel.'"

    Ezekiel 36:1 "Son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel and say, . . . ."

    Read Ezekiel. The entire book he is referred to as "Son of Man." This was a title that was used to humble him as a prophet and other prophets used it too, including Yeshua. Yeshua used the term when referring to the coming Moshiach Melech (Anointed King) in order to point out that he was only a man and only human (the coming King Messiah).

    Christians are in error but they will not be punished for the errors. They will be punished by them.

    Hope this helped.

    Yeshua WAS Mashiach.
    Yeshua WAS Anointed.
    Yeshua WAS a Prophet.
    Yeshua WAS a Child of God.
    Yeshua WAS a Wisdom Teacher.

    Yeshua was NOT Melech Mashiach. He was not Anointed as King and did not rule as King from Jerusalem.
    Yeshua was not the only Prophet to be Anointed by God to teach, there is nothing extraordinary about Yeshua in comparison to the other prophets aside from what Christians have made up and added to his life.
    Yeshua was not the greatest Prophet, all Prophets are equal.
    Yeshua was not the ONLY Son of God. If Yeshua was the ONLY Son of God then David was a liar when he wrote his Psalm and King David was not a liar, the people who say Yeshua was the ONLY son of God are liars.
    Yeshua was not the only Wisdom Teacher. There have been many.

    Nothing Yeshua said was unique. He just said it in new ways.
    He did not achieve the objective of the King Mashiach. What Christians forget is that Yeshua said, "I have not come to abolish to law."
    If they actually followed Yeshua, they would be Jews. Yeshua was a Jew. He didn't form a new religion. Christians are really Paulines and from now on that is what they will be called.
  2. Cedric

    Cedric or otherwise Ced

    Dec 31, 1999
    Believe me it more than helped. I'mana go ahead and go over this information for myself to read. And don't worry that he's my dad, it's unfair that'e's trying to govern what I believe in, I've been out 'o' the house since I was 17, and my outlook on life need not be pawned to anyone.

    I have a similar mentality as you... in an earlier post you'd mentioned that you don't condone to religions, and that you find more justification & truth in philosophy, & I'm finally starting to expand my horizons and question what's out there now that I've the strength to release the grip that Christianity has against me. I can't say that I have the knowledge to adhere to a specific philosophical method or even a religious practice because I'm far from it, but it makes sense to say that I've been Agnostic my whole life, since I never really engaged myself in service... I only attended organized religion to please family & feel like I'm in a state of Rapture.

    I have a plethora of questions to ask, my 1st one probably being what you believe happens to the soul after their mortal death... but if there's a book you'd recommend I check out/purchase (even if it's yours) concerning philosophy specially catered to the maze that I'm in, or more works that point out the flaws in Christian excerpts, please let me know... thanks.
  3. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Your father just cares about you. He has found that way beneficial to him and he believes that salvation depends on it. The fact that he is concerned for your salvation is not a bad thing. His intentions are in the right place.

    You gotta do what feels right for you and experience your life the way you experience it. Never let anybody convince you that you feel a way that you do not feel and never let anybody convince you that you do not feel a way that you do feel. If you want answers, look within yourself. If you can't find answers inside, you won't find them anywhere else.

    I've never died. I don't know.
    I don't even know what tomorrow will bring or even the next hour . . . I certainly don't have the answer to death and to guess is worthless. I'll find out when I die and so will you. Focus on living this life and let the next life worry about itself.

    You ever heard of Henry David Thoreau?
    I think you would like his book "Walden And Other Writings" . . .
    It's a good place to start. It may be wise for you to avoid the religious language and go for the Naturist (Darwinian/Thoreau) perspective just because Christianity has you so jaded. Here are some quotes:

    "This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible. If the tax gatherer, or any other public officer, asks me, as one has done, 'But what shall I do?' my answer is, 'If you really wish to do anything, resign your office.' When the subject has refused allegiance, and the officer has resigned his office, then the revolution is accomplished. But even supposed blood should flow. Is there not a sort of blood shed when the conscience is wounded? Through this wound a man's real manhood and immortality flow out, and he bleeds to an everlasting death. I see this blood flowing now." - Thoreau

    Now, above, Thoreau is referring to the Slave Trade and the Union during the 1850's. He was strongly against Slavery, Capitalism and the Printing Press as well as Corporations, among many other things . . . so here he is talking about how to overthrow the government. But, there is another message in his words if you look closely and if you study Thoreau. Thoreau was an amazing man. He was a poet of astounding proportions. Everything he wrote had a double meaning. Absolutely everything he said had two meanings. On the outside he is talking about the government and how the only peaceful revolution a man can wage is to "resign" from what society calls Civilization which is really nothing more than institutionalized slavery, with the bars and chains being the things you own (which really own you).

    He told the man, "resign from office and the revolution will be complete for you."
    Take this to a spiritual level and he is also saying, "Resign from the mundane. Resign from the illusionary world (civilization) and become enlightened to nature around you. Become aware to life. Your life is passing you by and you are wasting it trying to achieve something. But there is nothing to achieve. Resign from this worthlessness, work for your food or clothing and for your home and then live your life. That's all you have to do.

    "We now no longer camp as for a night, but have settled down on earth and forgotten heaven. We have adopted Christianity merely as an improved method of agri-culture. We have built for this world a family mansion, and for the next a family tomb. The best works of art are the expression of man's struggle to free himself from this condition, but the effect of our art is merely to make this low state comfortable and that high state to be forgotten." - Thoreau

    "The life which men praise and regard as successful is but one kind. Why should we exaggerate any one kind at the expense of the others?" - Thoreau

    "In any weather, at any hour of the day or night, I have been anxious to improve the nick of time, and notch it on my stick too; to stand on the meeting of two eternities, the past and the future, which is precisely the present moment; to toe that line. You will pardon some obscurities, for there are more secrets in my trade than in most men's, and yet not voluntarily kept, but inseparable from its very nature. I would gladly tell all that I know about it, and never paint 'No Admittance' on my gate. I long ago lost a hound, a bay horse, and a turtledove, and am still on their trail. Many are the travelers I have spoken concerning them, describing their tracks and what calls they answered to. I have met one or two who had heard the hound, and the tramp of the horse, and even seen the dove disappear behind a cloud, and they seemed as anxious to recover them as if they had lost them themselves. To anticipate, not the sunrise and the dawn merely, but, if possible, Nature herself!" - Thoreau

    "The soldier is applauded who refuses to serve in an unjust war by those who do not refuse to sustain the unjust government which makes the war." - Thoreau

    "But a government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it." - Thoreau

    "The editor is a preacher who you voluntarily support. Your tax is commonly one cent daily, and it costs nothing for pew hire. But how many of these preachers preach the truth? I repeat the testimony of many an intelligent foreigner, as well as my own convictions, when I say, that probably no country was ever ruled by so mean a class of tyrant as, with a few noble exceptions, are the editors of the periodical press in this country. And as they live and rule only by their servility, and appealing to the worse, and not the better, nature of man, the people who read them are in the condition of a dog that returns to his vomit." - Thoreau

    "The face of the country does not depend on how you vote at the polls, - the worst man is as strong as the best at that game; it does not depend on what kind of paper you drop into the ballot-box once a year, but on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street each morning." - Thoreau

    "What is wanted is men, not of policy, but of probity, - who recognize a higher law than the constitution, or the decision of the majority." - Thoreau

    "I would remind my countrymen that they are to be men first, and Americans only at a late and convenient hour. No matter how valuable law may be to protect your property, even to keep soul and body together, if it does not keep you and humanity together."

    Below in this last Quote Thoreau kills it with the double meaning. He's talking about both the Government and Civilization which has destroyed Nature and beauty and replaced it with material crap.

    "I walk toward one of our ponds; but what signifies the beauty of nature when men are base? We walk to lakes to see our serenity reflected in them; when we are not serene, we go not to them. Who can be serene in a country where both the rulers and the ruled are without principle? The remembrance of my country spoils my walk. My thoughts are murder to the state, and involuntarily go plotting against her." - Thoreau
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