Discussion in 'Sports Central' started by d-rell, Jul 11, 2009.
LT sucks in comparison to Smith....get over it..
Mine happens to be different, and I can back it up.
LDT > Emmit
And for the record coaches, players, and fans equally weigh in for pro bowl selections -- it's not just popularity contest, its based on performance as well.
Cowboy OL on its absolute worst day > Charger O-line on human growth harmones.
from what i've read so far...u haven't proven anything...I'm pretty confident emmitt broke alot of tackles...not to mention had a mean stiff arm
white played end
he could/would slide inside on passing plays/3rd downs
I hate listening to LT in conferences...it always sounds like he's about to cry or something
its a waiste with this guy.. ive literally crushed every weak point he's made in this thread and he just comes up with more irrelevant ones... this wasnt even an argument to me.. it was more of me just tryin to enlighten him lol but he doesnt get it... ahh oh well...
just a thought
i was just watchin the Chargers playoff game against Indi last year and of course LT was a No Show... Again... but what caught my attention was Darren Sproles... he had 328 allpurpose yards in that game
So I got curious and checked LT's playoff rushing totals... LMAO Darren Sproles almost had more yards in that one game then all of LT's playoff games COMBINED hahaha
LT's Playoff stats
Att: 84 Yds: 303 Long: 15 Avg: 3.6 TDs: 4
Emmitt's Playoff Stats
Att: 349 Yds: 1586 Long: 65 Avg: 4.5 TDs: 21
and it wasn't like LT was Barry Sanders, playin on shit teams.. barely scrapin into the playoffs and getting demolished by better teams... LT played on some great teams and it just seemed like he choked or No Showed everytime they needed him... But I know Dallas had legendary teams blah blah blah its not fair to compare stats haha
well how Bout this for a playoff comparison?
LT's Playoff stats
Att: 84 Yds: 303 Long: 15 Avg: 3.6 TDs: 4 / Rec: 16 Yds: 157 Avg: 9.8
lol Darren Sproles Playoff Stats / only started in 1 (not including All-Purpose Yards)
Att: 37 Yds: 155 Long: 26 Avg: 4.2 Tds: 4 / Rec: 13 Yds Yds: 197 Avg: 15.2
lol@ Darren fucking Sproles outshining LT in the playoffs
So I guess my question to D-Rell is, What happens to the 5th greatest running back of all time when the playoffs roll around? where does he go? why does he always end up hiding behind his visor?
wut lame ass excuse is gonna come out of ur mouth now?
(i wouldnt be surprised to see him blame it on the campbells chunky soup at this point lol)
You are using LT's playoff performances to discredit his ranking by d-rell but would you do the same for Barry Sanders? Barry played in the same amount of games in the playoffs and stats weren't a lot better. I believe just 10 more carries, maybe 80 more yards, just 1 100 yard rushing game also. Also Barry had that -1 yard rushing game against Green Bay in the playoffs. So would that lower your opinion/ranking of Sanders?
Emmitt has had more playoff experience, played on far better teams and not too mention played with far better offensive weapons.
The size and strength of Emmitt's blockers obviously wore down defenses, and I rememeber watching the Cowboy's running attack ruling the second half in so many postseasons games. If you put LDT behind Johnston and that OL he would pad more stats as well. With that said LDT (actually the entire Charger squad) needs to up the bar on playoff performance.
Emmitt > LDT in postseason.
LDT > Emmitt overall. Faster, stronger, more agile, better ball control, better receiver, better blocker, better player. Even after eight seasons LDT is on pace to top all of Emmitt's regular season career records with less offensive weapons on his side.
Emmitt Smith stats from 1990-1997 (1st 8 Seasons)
LaDainian Tomlinson stats from 2001-2008 (1st 8 Seasons)
LDT is better than Emmit accross the board when comparing both running backs first 8 seasons (including Emmit @ his prime). Despite the fact that Emmitt played behind the greatest OL in history, LDT post better numbers in everything, and is obviously on pace to surpass all of Smith's regular seasons career stats. Smith played with one of the best football teams in NFL history throughout the 90's and LDT SDG team was never on the level of the 90's Cowboy's, so I doubt that LDT will have enough postseason appearences to surpass Emmit's postseason career stats.
From '97 until the end of his career, Emmit produced a string of sub-par seasons (based on his usual standard), struggling to even reach the 1,000 yard mark, 10 TD mark, and the 4 ypc mark. LDT had a mediocre seasons last yr. but the remainder of his career is yet to be set in stone. He's still got potential.
You've done absolutely nothing this entire thread as far as producing an argument that even challenges my all-time RB ranking"."
6. E Smith
blah blah blah... lol if i didnt make any points to challenge ur list u wouldnt avoid them... in reality u havent made any points to justify ur piss poor list.
why didnt u comment on my Sproles comparison?... i made that on purpose so u couldnt blame the "whole chargers squad" he was more productive then LT when it matters the most... with a fraction of the carries, in the post season... and not just LT has had success in that offense runnin the ball either. behind an all pro line and lorenzo neil one of the strongest human beings alive....
Here is an infoulable argument when discussing a RBs success relative to his O-Line... what did other RBs do behind the same exact O-Line? after all u say Emmitt's O-Line was sooo great and anyone could have got those yard behind it, lets compare wut other RBs have done behind LT's Line and Emmitts line.
Cowboys backups ('90-97)
Att: 325 Ypc: 3.6 Tds: 3
Sproles & Turner alone
Att: 334 Ypc: 5.1 TDs: 13
so if the dallas' line was so great, then why couldnt anyone else run behind it? (stats were from the prime of dallas' O-Lines career) and if the chargers blocking was so much worse then how could it be that ALL of their backups did so much better? think about that.
as far as ur comparison bwahahahahaha lets continue comparing
after 8 seasons
LT Yds: 11760
Barry sanders Yds: 11725
Eric Dickerson Yds: 11903
Walter Payton Yds: 10204
Edgerrin James Yds: 10385
So LT is better then Barry Sanders also?? and Edgerrin James is better then Walter Payton?? and Eric Dickerson is better then them all??
Hey Jackass... this is why we dont judge a player after 8 seasons and u got the nerve to say i havent produced a single good argument in the same post that u throw this junk at me? i think its the other way around. ive dismantled every word uve said.. easily.
Nam I addressed that very thing in my post... LT played on way better teams then Barry (in the playoffs, other then maybe the '91 team)
From My Original Post:
and it wasn't like LT was Barry Sanders, playin on shit teams.. barely scrapin into the playoffs and getting demolished by better teams... LT played on some great teams and it just seemed like he choked or No Showed everytime they needed him...
it was a different situation... The lions offense was Barry and the Chargers offense simply had more weapons, meening less pressure on LT.. (Ex. last year, chargers made the playoffs and even won a playoff game without him) and at least Barry still Avg 4.2 a carry in the playoffs
lol who were the Cowboy's backups????? B/c Turner MICHAEL TURNER IS NOT A BAD BACK AT ALL (in fact I cannot believe you brought him up), he went to ATL and posted 1700 rush yards in his first seasons as a starter and Sproles is one of the fastest players in the NFL. The Cowboy backup's were nowhere near as talented as these two backs. Besides, LDT was not only the primary back, but the short yardage/goal-line back as well so naturally his ypc will be lower than good backs that that play only a few 1st or 2nd down (less carries) and get the bulk of their carries in noncomptitive 4th quarter's when the defense is worn out and filled with back up's.
Turner and Sproles > Sherman Williams, Lincoln Coleman all day...
These are not only poor comparisons, this is a poor argument. I've already presented a more solid argument comparing the Charger offensive lines and the 90's Cowboy offensive line. The Cowboy line was more sound, bigger, stronger, and produced far more PRO BOWLERS & ALL-PRO'S. The NFL calls the Cowboy line far greater than Charger line, the Sporting News calls the Cowboy lineman better... You have no sources, you have no argument? You've had nothing this entire thread but emotional feelings for Emmit. At one point you were so desperate that you were using heart and determination as a characteristic placing Emmit over LDT. You have nothing. In fact, you're arguments are so weak and repetitive that I don't think I needed to even post any historic stats to refute them.
What did Emmit have over LDT? ______ Anything you put in this blank I've already countered it sufficiently.
Do I have to recite my list of what LDT has over Emmit again?
You missed the entire point. The reason I posted the first 8 seasons comparison btw Emmit and LDT was to show that LDT is ahead of the pace to break all of Emmit's records. What else does Emmit have OVER LDT BUT CAREER RECORDS? You can't provide anything.... as in not one thing lol @ heart... you have nothing...
But as far as Barry v. LDT...
Sure LDT's a better scorer and receiver... sure LDT is on a pace to surpass his career rushing yards.
But the sky was the limit for Barry, he could've reached 20,000 yards. Barry walked out literally in his prime. He had 2,000+ yards and a 6.1 ypc in his 9th Season, he had a nice 10th season as well. His potential, not necessarily his career records made him.
You wanna argue about factoring in potential? Then explain to me why you've even listed Barry above Emmitt, or anyone above Emmitt in an all-time greatest RB's list, Emmitt has all the major records? But Emmitt played 15 seasons the last 8 were mediocre, if Barry decided to play that long he would've easily passed Emmitt... If Payton played that long he would've held the rushing record. Besides all of this, no back in the history of the NFL had a better blocking force than Emmitt... Emmitt had a clear advantage.
If extended years of mediocry has a significant impact on a players all-time ranking, then Vinny Testaverde is a better QB than Joe Montana, he had more passing yards and TD's than Joe Montana... but Vinny played 21 years or largely mediocre or poor seasons... Montana played 15, the majority were strong seasons. But what if Joe played for 21 years....
I don't count it against a player if they choose to walk away in their prime? That's why Barry>LDT>E Smith.
Like I said judging potential is the issue...
Judging potential is subjective (which is why you'll probably have various list ranking players) but throwing it out is retarded.
yea turner is a decend back but get the fuck outta here with sproles, he's avg at best. the point i was makin is that if the dallas line was so great, creating such large holes then any back would be able to take advantage, the stats show that this wasnt the case
@ the line comment, I showed stats that say the chargers line performed better (sacks) and also i showed why ur "bigger is better" argument was garbage showing a stat that the teams with the highest winning percentage also had the lightest o-lines infact "Of the five teams with the biggest offensive lines over the past 25 years, only one franchise — the Raiders — has won more games than it has lost." then ur argument was the probowl which is a popularity contest and not a reliable stat (try checkin wut happened on the field) DEADED.
and LMAO sayin i have nothing but emotion to support my argument for emmitt lol how bout his numbers, how bout every rushing stat that LT doesnt have a prayer at reachin... and since when was heart, health, longevity and toughness nothing? im sorry but thats a real stupid thing to say.
lemme answer that with a question u qont answer... What physical attribute did Jerry Rice have over TO?_________. records and stats aside... im talkin WR to WR... name one, and please dont avoid this by sayin "wah wah thats not relevant cuz TO will never catch Rice's numbers."
thats the same reason I posted the first 8, Eric Dickerson was on pace to break every rushing record known to man, and this is why we judge players on what they have accomplished so far and not on wut we think they will do.
u have nothing dude lol
lol @ ur lack of knowledge... thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard.... wut he did on the field is why he's number 1. what he actually did, the fact that he coulda broke the record if he wanted to was just icing on the cake... u cant go on potiental at all, Randall Cunningham had the potiental to be one of the best QBs of all time, so the fuck what? what did he do? let me get this right, heart, determination, toughness and longevity arent relevant but potiental is? yea go ask Randall Cunningham and Bo Jackson how many lists potiental got em on.
Vinny career QB RAT 75
Joe Montana career QB RAT 92.3... ur dumb
and define mediocre... prior to the season Emmitt broke the record he posted 11 straight 1,000+ yard seasons... thats mediocre? lololol thats a terrible argument lololol the worst argument ever... again let me get this straight.... setting the record for the most consecutive 1,000+ yard seasons is mediocre? in what way???
if thats the case then LT should walk away now... ps Barry didnt walk away cuz he is outta his prime.. he walked away cuz he didnt think his team could win.. initially he wanted a trade and when he couldnt get one he quit.
barry>jim brown>Walter>Emmitt>OJ>Tony Dorsette>Eric Dickerson>Marshall Faulk>Earl Campbell>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LT
Sproles better than Sherman Williams or whoever Cowboy backups were... what are u talking about???
The Cowboy backup's are trash... and that's why this is a weak argument, if you're trash a solid OL can help you but isn't going to turn you into a superstar. Here's the simple difference btw the Charger backup's and the Cowboy backup's.... the Charger backup's were more talented... duh
The teams you'd mentioned were passing teams that needed faster lineman to run out in the flats to block for backs... esp. the late 80's 49ers that you mentioned.. Roger Criag??? Westcoast Offense???
Emmitt was a btw the tackles runner. Simple physics.. more weight pushes the lineman back. <-- I really thought I shouldn't have to point certain things out. But not only did the lineman weight more, they had alot of strength. E Williams was one of the best tackles in his day, Nate Newton was one of the best gaurds, Ray Donaldson... blah blah blah.. I've listed them all. Finally from Larry Allen on down, PRO BOWL (voted on by players, coaches, and fans equally) and the ALL-PRO selection (by the associated press) judged the 90's Cowboy's as the best line ever if you add up all of their rewards. That's to say the NFL calls the Cowboy line the greatest of all-time. Surely that has some weight. lol And you want to compare them to the charges OL?
End of discussion... you still haven't trumped my counter on anything... I could basically just repeat the same things over and over again.
How is LDT not tough??? Like I said before from '01-'08 he's only missed a couple a games... and taken 3000 hand-off's. You can't do that in the NFL without being a tough back?? It's almost retarded that I have to say that lol
Heart ???.... lol... okay.. fine Emmitt has six more hearts and four more smilely faces than LaDainian.
Rice had WAYYYY better hands. Nuff said...
Yea, Dickerson had horrible hands... which is why I'd place Faulk above him in the all-time listing. Both Emmitt and esp. LDT were better scorers. Dickerson had a fairly good line anchored by one of the best ever Jackie Slater... but he had very poor ball-control. He wasn't dependable in that he fumbled what 11 times a season. He was a better rusher than Emmitt, but Emmitt was the better scorer, receiver, and had for greater ball control. Even after the first 8 seasons, the only category that Dickerson surpassed LDT in was rush yards, and it wasn't by that much.
You still have 0-5.
OH REALLY... terrible argument huh? Aren't you the one claiming that LDT last season was "Washed up", but yet he crossed the 1,000 yard plateau. I won't even call that a contridiction out of being polite... it was just a stupid thing to call attention to.
But I'm being consistent... unlike your entire argument. I'm calling LDT's last season mediocre even though he posted 1000+ yards. He had a low ypc and barely reached 10 TD's. But on the same hand, Emmitt from '97-END OF CAREER barely eclipsed the 1000 yard mark, had a low ypc, and barely (if he did at all) reached 10 TD's.... consistent mediocrity. Have of Emmitt's career was mediocre (compared to the average individual season of a top 10 Greatest of All-time RB) what else are we talking about?
By the way what I was pointing out in the Vinny and Montana comparison is that career records don't hold weight. Vinny just like Emmitt keep playing even though its obvious that they'd fell-off.
Well fine, maybe I should've brought QB rating in the discussion. Is Kurt Warner better than Joe Montana, he has a better career rating? So does Steve Young.
There are other important factors besides career records.. but even if you want to consider career records, LDT is on pace to surpass Emmitt.
lol I never said Barry walked away b/c he was out of his prime... in fact I said the opposite, what are you reading? I said he was still in his prime when he walked away?
There is a difference btw having one bad season and being out of your prime. I don't think LDT is out of his prime after 8 seasons like Emmitt... Payton wasn't, Sanders wasn't... I think LDT has some more solid seasons left.
0-the whole thread...
this is it right?... if you reach any harder you'll pull your arm out of socket.. lol
eh oh well believe wut u want... the last thing i will address (cuz i already deaded everything else like twice lol) is wut u said about emmitt after his 8th season... actin like he wasnt productive.... in emmitts last 6 seasons ( second year with the cardinals he only played 5 games...) he had 7121 yards meaning he averaged nearly 1200 yards a season. im done ive won this argument over and over again... ur just tooo hard headed to look at the stats and facts.
You still can't quite follow what I'm saying... as far as potential...
Ranall Cunningham had a wealth of potential but no consistent. For instance, A Peterson has madd potential but two seasons is barely enough to qualify for consistency. LDT has potential and merit, just like Barry. They've proven that they can last in the league at a high level. Considering what Barry and LDT have done including staying healthy and conditioned (esp. when comparing them to a RB with a longer career) it's only fair to supplement their short or unfinished careers with what they likely would've done (i.e. potential). Potential is subjective... but a list that doesn't account for it is weak and incomplete.
thats why i typically do not put players who are still active on a list... in the future they can do somethin to sway ur opinion in one direction or another... for instance... if next year LT has a weak season but the team does good and wins a couple games in the playoffs and gets to the conf champ game and in the final seconds he does somethin to blow the game, thats gonna change what people think of him when they look back..... conversly, if he has a comeback season next year, sustains it for a few more seasons and has a memorable performance in at least one big game i would even put him ahead of emmitt... as it stands right now it just wouldnt be right to put him up there, i know other players have played only 9-10 seasons but i dont think LT belongs in the same sentence as Jim Brown or Barry Sanders...
What about Herman Moore, Brett Perriman and Johnnie Morton? The offense of that 1995 team was pretty good. The lions largest problem was the QB situation except for the 95 team. If they had a solid QB to toss to Moore, Perriman and Morton they would have been more potent, it was the defense that was the issue in that 95 season, but then again Mitchell totally fucking up in the playoffs was an issue to.
yea... the offense was great in that 95 season... but once again they melted down in the playoffs... and its prolly hard to stick to the running game when u losin 38-7 in the 2nd quarter... u cant blame Barry for that.
and with exeption to the -1 yard rushin day (lol) Barry did good in the playoffs... he just didnt get the ball enough... i see at least 3 games where if he got at least 25 carries he woulda broke the 100 yard mark, but they were either bein blown out, or blowin out the cowboys in their only playoff win.
with LT its a different story, u see close games, u see 2 games where LT gets over 20 carries and his ypc was 2.0 and 3.1 and u see games where he was needed and just didnt play. he had oppertunities and just didnt show up.
He might have racked up -10 yards in that Green Bay game with more carries, I believe at one point he was at -6. Watching that game was fucking awesome.
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