All-Time Football greats list

Discussion in 'Sports Central' started by d-rell, Jul 11, 2009.

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  1. d-rell

    d-rell New Member

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    lol why didn't you just quit... its over, past, and gone dude... but anyway

    Some of the many flaws in your post, and some of my strong points.

    1.) Despite your deep wishes, just because LDT had a mediocre season last yr. doesn't mean his career is on a slide in his 8th Season. Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, these are great running backs that were arguably at the best around LDT's age. So throw the one mediocre season (just coming off knee surgery) out of the argument.

    2.) There is no way you can take my criteria for making the list and apply it to Adrian Peterson. How is and AP to LDT comparison the same as an LDT to Emmit comparison? LDT has 8 straight seasons with 1,000 plus yards that qualifies as a big enough body of work to draw comparsions with any back in history. If 8 straight seasons with 1,000 plus yards doesn't qualify as a big enough body of work then we might as well just through out Jim Brown all together. In other words, according to your criterion Jim Brown in no way, shape, or form can compare with E Smith - which sounds extremely football challenged.

    3.) The links to the ESPN interviews say absolutely nothing. Brett Favre was supposed to retire in like 2004, but... Beyond that if you go look up a few post on this thread, you claimed that "Tomlinson wasn't going to play two more seasons", based on what? You're sources don't back that. You're too emotional with your hatred for Tomlinson to even make a credible statement. The interview was right after the dissapointing 2008 season, and the guy said that he "might not" break Emmit's record. Do you hear in another language or something? Why are you translating that into LDT admits that he will not break Emmit's record.

    4.) LDT, in my opinion meets the consistency test (for the reasons I laid out in my first point). But a true GREATEST OF ALL-TIME list, goes beyond just records (e.g. I don't know anybody dumb enough to claim Emmit in the top RB of all-time spot even though he has most of the most recognizable records) you also have to factor in potential. In other words, although Barry Sanders is third on the all-time rushing list, he obviously had the potential to far excel his career rushing totals. Consistency is a factor (IMO Gale Sayers would've been the 2nd greatest RB on my list if he was able to tap into most of his potential), but consistency is not the only factor. So the question that makes most GREATEST OF ALL-TIME list so subjective is how do you measure potential @ a given point? On the one hand you have Emmit Smith, who ran the well dry, he had a fifteen yr. career - then on the other hand you have Tomlinson who has "so far" an eight yr. career. If Tomlinson all of asudden ended his in the "two years" like you hope he would likely be the fourth leading rusher all-time right behind Sanders who had a ten year career as well, he'd be a few rush TD's behind Emmit, with possibly more overall TD's than Emmit, he'd have about 100 more receptions... in 5 LESS YEARS THAN EMMIT, that's one of the all-time careers. Even if you take Emmit after 10 years ('90-'99), and compare it to LDT with two more years of last season's mediocracy, LDT leads in yards, leads in TD's, less fumbles, way more receptions, more receiving TD's, basically more everything... and that's after 10 years... not AP v. LDT after 2 years... he leads Emmit after 10 years, and that's if LDT just has a modest next two seasons, with no Larry Allen featuring the greatest line in sports history. LDT > Emmit.

    Lastly.) Did I forget to mention... he's faster, stronger, quicker, more agile... just leaps and bounds above Emmit skill wise. To be brutally honest, Emmit was above average... but that's just it in my opinion, he was the product of taking a slightly above average running back with good vision out of Florida and putting him behind the greatest offensive blocking force in the history of the sports world. If you put Jimmy Walker behind a bunch of riot-calming task force shields of course its going to be tough to stop Jimmy's from moving forward... j/k but you get the point...

    LDT > Emmit. The End
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  2. PiffInDaHamper

    PiffInDaHamper New Member

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    adrian peterson is already better than LT
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  3. hYpOconDriAdIcT

    hYpOconDriAdIcT New Member

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    [youtube]eEhDZN0RFjw[/youtube]

    PS never said i saw anyone say LT was only gonna play 2 seasons, thats just my opinion... Jim Brown played in 12-14 game seasons and still finished 8th all time... and I already deaded ur other weak arguments and im not doin it again cuz ur just repeating urself.
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  4. hYpOconDriAdIcT

    hYpOconDriAdIcT New Member

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    let me ask u somethin d-rell...



    if LT retired today, would u put him higher then Emmitt?
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  5. hYpOconDriAdIcT

    hYpOconDriAdIcT New Member

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    so far... yes he is.
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  6. d-rell

    d-rell New Member

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    It's painfully close, but yes... I would. But two things break it LDT's way for me. Emmit had the greatest OL in human history, and LDT's receving ability is extremely underrated.

    wow@the Billy madison one of my fav movie clips

    top 3 movie funniest movie clips of the 90's

    1. "Hamburgers" Pulp Fiction
    2. "Everyone is now dumber" Billy Madison
    3. "True Enemy is war itself" Crimson Tide


    lol

    ~1~
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  7. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    u are telling me...LT is better then Emmitt if he retired now?
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  8. hYpOconDriAdIcT

    hYpOconDriAdIcT New Member

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    great O-Line? yes.... greatest O-Line in history?? i dunno about that.. yea they had alot of big names but when I look at some of the stats they are not that impressive...

    for instance in Emmitts first 8 seasons the O-Line gave up 225 sacks

    LT's first 8 seasons... O-Line only gave up 192 sacks

    so ur sayin the greatest O-Line in history gave up 33 more sacks then the chargers O-Line? well what does that say about the O-Line LT is runnin behind? cant be that bad
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  9. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    I think ppl assume the Larry Allen was the entire Offensive line......granted he play most of those positions well...but not everyone on that line was Larry Allen caliber some were just average. Emmitt's vision is a huge part of his success....
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  10. d-rell

    d-rell New Member

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    Are you really trying to draw a comparison btw the '01-'08 Chargers OL and the '91-'98 Cowboy OL... I'm just making sure....

    Because when you're entire line has been to the pro bowl an avg. of 4 X's.. and 90% of the line was all-pro at least once... what you have sir is the greatest O-Line in human history. They had no weakness. Like I pointed out before, even when Emmit performed mediocre in 1996, he had three blockers starting in the Pro Bowl. The league should know how to judge a lineman.

    I'll drop more info when I'm off work...

    ~1~
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  11. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    Isn't the pro-bowl just a popularity contest? its not like it REALLY takes into account who the better players were...

    Eli Manning? Kerry Collins? seriously?
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  12. hYpOconDriAdIcT

    hYpOconDriAdIcT New Member

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    hey u cant argue with the numbers... the pro bowl however is a literal popularity contest... look at what happened to phillip rivers last year lol was he not the best performing QB last season? or at least top 3? so why didnt he make the pro bowl?
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  13. Vintage Tox

    Vintage Tox One Hundred Percent

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  14. d-rell

    d-rell New Member

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    Emmit made the pro bowl 8 times, Barry made it his entire career, and ect.... the pro bowl voters appear to get it right more often that not. The pro bowl is a credible feat... but if that's not enough, the 1990's Cowboy offensive line boasted multiple all-pro's as well... that's according to the associate press of course (credible enough)...

    Size and strength to an Offensive Lineman is what speed and agility is to a running back... Emmit had by far the biggest, strongest, and most athletic line on his era, and most likely the biggest and strongest line of all-time.

    Fact's about the 1990's Cowboy offensive line

    1.) Avg. measurements 6'4'' 320 lbs.
    2.) On average they weighed 60 lbs. more than the avg. of the opposing defense
    3.) The legendary Hudson Houck was the offensive line coach from '93-'01. Also Dallas Assistant Coach Tony Wise was an Offensive Line specialist... so the Cowboy offensive front was indeed well-coached and technically sound.
    4.) Cohesiveness. They had experience together... at least Newton, E Williams, Tuinei, and Stepnoski did (likely b/c there was no free agency or salary cap). Pather Defensive End Mike Fox stated in '97 "They always seemed to be more in sync than the rest of the lines in the league."
    5.) From '93-'99 the Cowboy line allowed only 134 sacks. That's 22.1 per season.

    ~1~
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  15. Nam Dekan

    Nam Dekan i got a tip in my pocket

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    Where is the greatest Punter list?
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  16. hYpOconDriAdIcT

    hYpOconDriAdIcT New Member

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    lol@#1... Avg measurement of a dallas O-Lineman RIGHT NOW 6'5 335 pounds... so dallas' current O-line is better then those guys? after all size and strength to a lineman is like speed and agility to a RB lol u goon


    @ #3 the legendary Hudson Houck was also the O-Line coach last year and the teams sack percentage (percentage of times sacked when attempting to pass) went from 4.4% to 5.4%. with the same exact O-Line as the year before...hmmmm

    @ #4 LMAO yea Mike Fox also didnt register a sack that season and only registered 17 sacks in his 9 year career haha his opinion is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

    @ #5 haha u literally pick a random timespan with the lowest amount of sacks... why is the time span from 93-99 relevant to this argument?? the sack numbers i gave u were the totals for emmitt's first eight seasons which were relevant because the were compared to LT's first 8 seasons... nice try tho.. By the way the chargers only gave up 2 more sacks per season (24) compared to ur random time span haha






    what about number 2 u ask? haha i saved the best for last

    @ #2 ok that would be because d-lineman are typically lighter then O-Lineman (A DE is almost always gonna be lighter then an OT) in a 4-3 anyway. and at that time 90% of the teams in the NFC ran 4-3 schemes

    LMAO!! read this

    "More weight does not guarantee wins

    NFL offensive linemen started to get bigger than their defensive counterparts in 1975, the first year the O-lines outweighed the D-lines.

    This season, the average weight for an offensive lineman is 312 — 23 pounds heavier than the average defensive lineman.

    The push for poundage led to earth-shaking moments for gargantuan players. In 1999, the Detroit Lions made Wisconsin offensive tackle Aaron Gibson, who at one time weighed 440 pounds, the 27th overall pick in the draft. Gibson mostly played in the upper 300s, but in 2002 he became the league's first 400-pounder at 410 with the Dallas Cowboys.

    That same year, Buffalo selected 370-pound OT Mike Williams fourth overall.

    Both are now out of football.

    "Truth is, bigger isn't better. Better is better," Schlereth said.

    Research supports Schlereth's claim.

    Since 1980, the two teams with the highest winning percentages — the San Francisco 49ers and Denver — had the lightest offensive lines."

    heres ur link:
    NFL players struggle with weight game

    [​IMG]
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  17. abz is died.

    abz is died. #puppybreathandcinnamon

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    Ha.
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  18. abz is died.

    abz is died. #puppybreathandcinnamon

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    1. Ray Guy
    2. Jeff Feagles
    3. Sean Landetta
    4. Reggie Roby
    5. Darren Bennett

    I DARE ANYONE TO COME UP WITH A BETTER LIST.
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  19. d-rell

    d-rell New Member

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    You still didn't clarify.. the pro bowl's a popularity contest right? Did Emmit's popularity get him to the pro bowl or his talent? Favre pretty popular lately....

    If its not just based on popularity... then the amount of pro bowls the Cowboy offensive line registered throughout the 90's compared to what the Chargers produces is so one way that we shouldn't even be discussing it... then at least from '93-'99 the Cowboy line were better pass blockers as well. Esp. from what '94-'98... and average of below 20 sacks a season? The Cowboy's didn't exactly have a modern-Giants style offense, Aikman had close to 500 attempts some seasons.

    Even if you discredit the pro bowl, which I refuse to do b/c over the years w a few errors its proven to be fairly accurate... how many times have Charger O-lineman made all-pro compared to the Cowboy OL... hehe, and that's the Associated Press kikko...


    @ #5.. no I picked '93-'99 b/c that's when Houck jumped on board. Houck also coach Jackie Slater, and did an excellent job engineering the Seahawk run offense with Chris Warren. Larry Allen (whose easily better than any Charger lineman) even claimed Houck as "genius".

    I'm thrilled to see you're guy Schlereth's reasearch is backed up by the 49ers and Bronco's of the 80's... two primarily passing offenses. In your notes I don't see any run-first teams??? Afterall we are talking about Emmit Smith and not Troy Aikman.

    Size and strength up front help a run game....

    And Emmit definitely had one of the biggest and strongest....

    The key to the Cowboy OL dominance was not only size and strength (which they had even before Larry Allen), its skill, athleticism (esp. with E Williams and Larry Allen) and cohesivness. They were very well coached and they had experience together. They had everything you need in an offensive line... and the present Cowboy line lol, nah the pretty good, they do have size... but... they don't have the skill, athleticism, and cohesiveness... skill being the major lapse. Which is why the present Cowboy line isn't producing the same accolades, such as pro bowl starts, and all-pro awards. Flozell Adams, who is one of the best, if not the best blocker on the line actually blocked for Emmit from '98-'til whenever Emmit left to flop in Arizona. lol Jerry Jones and co. always made sure Emmit was protected with the best.


    Another thing just because you're "light" doesn't mean you're not strong.

    It's not me making this up.. the league from the pro bowl to the associated press recognize the Cowboy Line as the greatest of all-time. No other Offensive Line has produced as many league awards as the 90's Cowboy offensive Line... nobody. They had size, skill, strength, the guards such as Nate Newton were recognized as the best "pullers" in the league. The verteran center Ray Donaldson was one of the best. Stepnoski, Tuinie, Erik Williams (who many were saying if you remember was the Reggie White stopper - he and Reggie [the best defensive takle of all-time] had some epic battles), Kevin Gogan (selected to three pro bowls) Flozo Adams joined the team in the late 90's. And last but not least, LARRY ALLEN, the greatest Guard of all-time (and what six all-pro's). Any given year, there were potential pro bowlers and a slew of all-pro's across. I dare you to find me one line in the history of the NFL that can compete with that! THEY WERE BIG, STRONG, AND SKILLED. Esp. early in the 90's, this line was up against Wash. (Charles Mann), Philly (Reggie White, Clyde Simmons), NYG (Lawrence Taylor, Lenard Marshall)... even when White went to Green Bay he struggled against 2 time all-pro Erik Williams... that OL was decorated... and did I mention three or four of them played together for over half a decade. BECAUSE OF FREE AGENCY AND SALARY CAP YOU'LL NEVER SEE ANOTHER OL LIKE THAT AGAIN, greatest EVER! Do you research, ask around the league if you can... stats are there, size and strength was there, excellent athletisim @ the tackle position and at the guard position esp. with Larry Allen... and the awards - all pro's, pro bowl's all there! EMMIT WAS LUCKY AND FORTUNATE.

    ... the chargers ol couldn't hold weight with these guys.. nobody could, the end!


    ~1~
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  20. Nam Dekan

    Nam Dekan i got a tip in my pocket

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    1.Feagles
    2.Landetta
    3.Guy
    4.Roby
    5.Lechler
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