A post 2000 very good album will still be better than a classic from the 90's...

Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by Butch Coolidge, Apr 29, 2005.

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  1. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    Nate Doggs whole album, both discs of G Funk Volume 1 and 2 had back to back mid-90's hip-hop beats. Same for his late 90's sophomore - you never heard the song Regulate where he sings just as much as Warren G rhymes? Lauryn Hill sang the whole way through on Killing Me Softly... D'Angelo, Alliyah, SWV, En Vogue, Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey, TLC, etc etc - all had very hip-hop laced beats. Even Christina Aguilera's first single, Genie In a Bottle was a hip-hop beat... with a DJ on the tables and everything.


    It is all the same shit... lay some drums down, drop the bass, find the melodys... and you got a beat. Except, instead of one SP1200 you've got million dollar studios for that crisp sound.

    Why would you like anything that's objectively wack? The way you put it... if this was rock, acoustic is going to be automatically inferior to electric no matter how well the acoustic is played, and how badly the electric.

    And objectively, nothing can fuck with classical music from centuries ago... so everything is "objectively bad" right? Please use some logic that's actually applicable.

    'cause they're trying to make pop music instead of hip-hop? That's not what I'd call progression of an art form... they're making dope pop music and inferior hip-hop music? You got it backwards anyway... the trend now is too use soul samples and obscure vocals in beats, and that was being done to death in the early and mid 90's and the biggest hits in hip-hop usually have the most simplistic and least musical beats - 'cause it's the least musically challenging/distracting for the casual radio listener, and alot easier to dance to a repetetive loop. It's just like the preferred level of lyricism in any music genre: the really poetic and complex shit doesn't get any play.

    Lil Jon is the most in demand producer out right now and his shit isn't musical at all It doesn't resemble the pop-styled production of mid 90's stuff like Madonna's "Like a Prayer" or MJ's "History" in any way... that Whisper song by Ying Yang Twins sounds like it was made on MTV Music Generator.

    So you're basically telling me why hip-hop is selling more than ever, and not why it's "objectively better" than ever.

    Now you think RZA was a good producer? Before you were telling me he was wack... so why did you start to consider Cuban Linx a classic, and RZA a genius? Was it because of the breakdown XXL did?
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  2. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    lemme explain this one last time... if you think you can't make an R&B track to ALMOST ANY hip hop beat, you're an idiot... you can take the most basic beat and harmonize over it correctly and make it sound hot cuz that adds a melody (just like beats have)... you can create your own or stick with the original melody of the beat...

    and once again, Premo's beats from the mid-90's shit on 95% of beats today... Premo's beats are straight up dope... END OF STORY

    I agree that most beats back then were basic and I'm a avid believer of that and I'ma avid believer that hip hop's gotten better "musically" since then but Premo's shit was dope then and now... stop hatin' on du'
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  3. Butch Coolidge

    Butch Coolidge New Member

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    A gay who think hip hop beats sound the same since 1980 is fuckin retarded.

    I was talkin about rap sucka....Read before reply. Rap from 90's SUCKS compared to modern rap...That's why I say from the begining.
    And objectively, classical shits are fuckwithable...That electronic elements can make music more large than ever...

    Pop music has always been superior to rap music.
    Michael Jackson's albums were unfuckwithable by any rap album until The Blueprint.

    Musically, shit is real muhufucka.


    Look to Eminem or Kanye West (the 2 dopes beatmakers outta there)...Their beats do sound like that HIStory shits (They Don't Really Care About Us, HIStory, Scream....)
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  4. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    Good thing no one like that is here right now, but you're a complete fucking moron. Nobody said that, but a guy who thinks that new drum, bass, and melody is something besides drum, bass, and melody doesn't have a full grasp on reality. 2 = 5?



    That makes no sense, according to you "more musical" is better, and none of this shit today, or 60 years ago, is "more musical" than the compositions these orchestras were playing over a century ago - make up your mind.

    That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Pop music isn't superior to the best music of any genre. Any fan, of any kind of music, anybody who takes it seriously will tell you that - any music journalist, music theory professor - artists just put more time into their deeper, more complex and less appealing music. The more definitive and personalized the music is, the less audiences you will tap into overall.

    Pop music isn't even a style of music to begin with, it's just music that happens to be popular. It's a chart that keeps track of what's being played on the radio... you put on a pop station and you'll hear everything ranging from Tim McGraw, to Black Eyed Peas/from Janet Jackson, to Maroon 5/Green Day to Krazytown - and everything sounds different.

    I remember when Scream was a single, and Janet was in the video with him in those spikey suits... the shit doesn't sound like hip-hop, It's not even the same BPM as hip-hop. It sounds like what all dancer/vocalists had going on in with their productions the early and mid 90's. An evolution of progressive rock/soul from the 80's.

    Arrested Development was another big group at the time, on alternative and pop stations and their production was strictly Salt + Pepa, Heavy D style hip-hop production, and that style was definitely inferior to the work Dre, RZA, Daz, Havoc, El-P, Erick Sermon, and DJ Quik were doing in the mid 90's - that's why their styles became the standards. After '97 everything became midi-keyboard work and nothing but compressed bass, which is when hip-hop became LESS musical.

    Now that the sampling and soundscape styles of the those producers has been resurrected by albums like Blueprint and producers like Kanye - hip-hop is back in it's prime form. Only this time, the genre commands enough respect to be made in the same million dollar studios that MJ's albums were produced in - which creates that "crisp sound" and polished feel. Exactly like I was saying in the 1st part that your stupid ass quoted me in - SAME STYLE, NEW EQUIPMENT. From acoustic to electric... but goddamn if an MTV unplugged album isn't nice as fuck.
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  5. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    OKAY, now you're retarded... Em's one of the best MC's (the GOAT IMO) but he ain't the best producer (not even close)... Kanye I understand but Em!?!? c'mon man... get serious... and Michael Jackson's beats were pretty simplistic... go listen to some shit off Thriller... it's a simple beat but they're still hot..... you're lost man.... and UNTIL Blueprint!?!?! LMFAO, you're a joke, officially
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  6. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Oh yeah, and here's a "old" beat that's been remade that is basically exactly the same thing 'n still MUSICAL... the beat for T.O.D.A.Y on Death is Certain (Royce's album) is FIRE... where'd it come from? a Mary J Blige song from 'round '94 I believe... and it's a hip hop beat but Mary just sang over it... Royce killed that song... just felt like puttin' that in here cuz I'm at work and I just started listenin' to it and both versions are FIRE
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  7. Butch Coolidge

    Butch Coolidge New Member

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    Look faggot.
    A rapper=a mic and a voice. Then with time, rappers evolved and now technics are more develloped.
    Instrumentally, it's the same...Still a melody, a drumline and a bassline but used differently (with a mo' musical technic)

    Fuckin retarded.

    Why? Haha
    With modern equipement it's easy to make orchestra compositions AND OTHER compositions (electronical, acoustic...)
    Wake up you fuckin kid.

    I didn't say that...I said Pop music was superior to Hip Hop until The Blueprint...

    Is that supposed to prove Pop music is wack? Hahaha

    Haha
    You're a fuckin moron dude.
    The prime form of hip hop is a rhythm and a voice on it.
    Kanye is faaaar away from that wack shit dude.

    Fag'
    I didn't say any shit acoustic was wack.
    Rap didn't change from acoustic to electric shits...
    Befo', rap had his own beats, shit was repetititve (weather it was acoustic or electric)...Now rap is musical.

    Learn punk.

    Few cuts: Ghetto Gospel, Lose Yourself, Superman, Sing 4 Da Moment...

    Maybe, but they shitted on Illmatic's like Quality's shit on em...you're contradictory.

    Name one rap album before The Blueprint that could fuck with HIStory musically.
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  8. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    one rap album? Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (that's semi rap but she's a rapper/singer)... the beats are very "hip hop"... lmfao

    and a person can't be contradictory... a person's thoughts or stance may be contradictory... and no I'm not... Quality's beats shit on Michael Jackson's beats as well... you're contradicting yourself because you were talkin' about complex is better and you're sayin' the Michael Jackson's album is phenomemal "musically"... his beats were simplistic as fuck... what made his album phenomenal was the impact, vocals, beats, styles, and more all compacted into one... nobody had done it like him before...... the beats (which you are sayin' deciphers how musical an album is) weren't the standout.... and the beats aren't the only thing that defines "musical"... there's vocals, impact, lyrics, and more
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  9. J-A-B-B-A-R

    J-A-B-B-A-R Knick Hater

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    Bitch Coolidge is officially one of the stupidest people in terms of hip hop knowledge alongside Imperial 1. Congrats people

    pz
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  10. Butch Coolidge

    Butch Coolidge New Member

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    I NEVER SAID ********** was equal to quality.
    Actually, Premo and Pete Rock beats were and are more complex than Kanye's or but the latest are da dopest.




    Look at that Fantastic Damage album, shit was complex but not musical.



    I get why YOUR THOUGHTS looked so contradictory.

    Beats=instrumentals=music.
    How can impact or lyrics could change something on the musical aspect of a work?
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  11. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    vocals aren't a part of musical? ummmm... someone can sing acapella and make a song and it's still "music"... someone can rap acapella but it's still "MUSIC"

    vocals have plenty to do with it... and no, Pete Rock nor Premiere's beats are more complex than Kanye's but they're not BASIC and they are dope as fuck regardless

    WANT MORE PROOF? listen to Motown artists... Boys II Men for example... they often made songs just harmonizing and humming and singing... that's still a song
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  12. Butch Coolidge

    Butch Coolidge New Member

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    Ok for the vocals.

    But the problem remains the same...********** isnt equal to quality.

    Do you really think Fantastic Damage is dope?


    And no, Rock and Premiere shits are wack compared to real musical shits like Kanye West makes.
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  13. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    UMMM... almost every producer is EHHHHH compared to Kanye West cuz I think Kanye West is BY FAR the best producer... but Premiere and Pete Rock are dope as fuck also... Premiere, IMO, is the third best producer (Jus' Blaze gets my second spot)... Pete Rock is lower top 10... they're ILL... stop hatin' on 'em

    they got more classics than almost every PRESENT day producer will have before their careers over
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  14. Butch Coolidge

    Butch Coolidge New Member

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    Yeah but you know their classics can't fuck with modern dopeness.

    Premo and Rock still produce the same way they produced in da past. I don't hate dog.

    And yeah Just Blaze is dope as hell.
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  15. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Premo can keep up with Just Blaze... Pete Rock's below both of 'em... they don't produce the same way they used to.... and Premo's used to be ahead of his time back in the day... people caught up to him... and he got a 'lil better, even at that... Premo's the shit
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  16. Mask2MyFace2

    Mask2MyFace2 Controversial

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    no it's not....that shit is so wack
    he's talking about eating people and having lions in his pocket
    shit so wack
    devil worshippin? wtf is that? so wack.
    like I said...it was put together nicely...but it's wack



    Tears don't affect me, I hit 'em with the tech G
    Disrespect me - my potency is deadly
    I'm shootin babies, no ifs ands or maybes
    Hit mummy in the tummy if the hooker plays a dummy
    Slit the wrist of little sis
    After she sucked the dick, I stabbed her brother with the icepick
    because he wanted me to fuck him from the back
    but Smalls don't get down like that
    Got your father hidin in a room; fucked him with the broom
    Slit him down the back and threw salt in the wound
    Who you think you're dealin with?
    Anybody step into my path is fuckin feelin it!
    Hardcore, I got it sucked like a pussy
    Stab ya til you're gushy, so please don't push.. me
    I'm using rubbers so they won't trace the semen
    The black demon, got the little hookers screamin
    Because you know I love it young, fresh and green
    with no hair in between, know what I mean?


    yes...he killed it...1000 times better. Yes Eminem has better technique but it still doesn't make what he says better...lyrical content of Em was so wack on this song. While he's talking about swords and other nonsense...Biggie take you on a story of how he killed a whole family.

    "beat you to death with weapons that'll eat through ya flesh and I'll never eat you unless the fuckin meat looks fresh"
    put together nice but it's so wack. How you gon beat somebody with a weapon that eats through their flesh? and then outta nowhere...just cause it sounds good..."Ill never eat you unless the fuckin meat looks fresh", then switch topics...no way that Em verse was anywhere near what biggie spit....I'm not even a biggie smalls fan but any fool can see who's verse was better. Get outta here man.
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  17. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    WTF!?!?! are you a complete moron? you judge a verse you don't understand? you don't know what devil worshippin' is and says it's wack!?!?! you're an imbecile....

    Devil worshipping is satanic, cult-like activities where they sacrifice animals, humans, and do all sorts of NASTY things... everything he says makes sense.... you're just not intelligent enough to understand it... Em rips that shit hard

    outshined BIG EASILY

    his content was dope... whether you understood it or not.... and there are weapons that eat through your flesh... EXAMPLES: whips, belts, everything Jesus was beat with....
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  18. Mask2MyFace2

    Mask2MyFace2 Controversial

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    I understood it...

    that doesn't make it not wack....



    when i said "Wtf is that?"... I meant it like 'What are you doing...what is that?" not "I don't know what devil worshipping is" feel me?


    but anyhow that shit is wack....it's a TECHNICALLY superior verse but the lyrical content as said before is wack and doesn't come close to Biggie. I didn't say it didn't make sense I said it was nonsense. Why would he talk about devil worshipping? That's stupid, absurd anything else ya wanna put there. It ruined the song.
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  19. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    There isn't a musical technique, only a more musical style of sound. It's not like cats are sitting down with sheet music, or learning to play instruments... they're using the same techniques with new sound choices on better equipment the majority of the time.



    Right, because everyone knows digitized sound samples are so much more musical and crisp than live instrumentation lol

    ...and of course, the genius of composition in the work of classic composers is so EASILY surpassed by anybody who has a keyboard and drum machine

    Those were both ********* btw

    What's the difference. It isn't, and never has been.


    Uh, no. It's supposed to prove that this generalizatrion you have of pop music being a superior form of music makes no sense, when every genre (including hip-hop since Walk This Way) is encompassed in pop music merely by it's representation on television, radio, and billboard charts.

    What about rhymes and flow?

    If Kanye isn't indicative of hip-hop in it's prime, then how is that you say modern hip-hop is the best it's ever been? Someone was their best in their prime... English; Learn it.

    So what did it change from? Samples ('79) to samples ('05)? Live instrumentation ('80's with Aerosmith and Run DMC, and The Roots since '95 onto Wyclef and RZA and Dre... to live instrumentation in '05). What exactly changed?

    The turntablist is a musician, but since you know nothing about hip-hop and the craft, art, technique and musical styles involved in it as a whole... you wouldn't understand how being deadly with your hands is a musical skill that no pop producer with a multi-million dollar studio can compete with, unless they're the person playing every instrument they record and and sample. Which very few are...

    Your posts are funny.
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  20. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Why would he rap about devil worshipping? Same reason Biggie rapped about murdering a entire family... Em just took it to a more extreme level... he's allowed to do that and he did it VERY WELL....
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