Discussion in 'The 50 Greatest Battle Rappers of All-Time' started by gregrieke20, Nov 9, 2011.
The difference is JUST AS GREAT IF NOT MORE.
The reason I disagree with that is because when International guys have battled Americans the battles have often times been close, with Americans sometimes even taking the L.
Justice beat Solomon and Saurus (in the same tourney), Bishop beat Jin, Too Much beat X factor, Pro Green beat Axel and Serius Jones, etc...(did BA beat Illmac? Or was that promo...regardless very close battle with one of America's best)
The dream team was fuckin up Angola like 132-47, lol.
(The gap in basketball has obviously narrowed, but still "historically" America has been so far ahead of other countries its not even an argument)
Iron Solomon, Jin, Thesaurus, and Seirus Jones put in work and continued to battle top competition in the place that had the BEST COMPETITION: AMERICA. That's why they're well respected everywhere.
Greg, I honestly think you and others are setting the bar so low for International battlers and equating them to the achievements and accomplishments of American battlers; rather than assessing them accurately and crowning true greatness when it's actually earned.
BTW, Greg; this is just a friendly debate and I know you've put in hard work on this book. #Muchrespect
I get what you're saying...and even get the argument that perhaps NO non-Americans should be included...but I just don't think the gap is as wide as it is with basketball or say rap music for that matter...like if it was a "50 greatest rappers of all-time" obviously they'd all be american, but with this the playing field is more even imo (though not THAT much more even which is why there are only 7 international reps)
(Also, of course I know its a friendly debate bro...criticisms will only help in ANY FORM...though I'd prefer them to be friendly, lol)
Dog, that's an awful analogy. In sports the level of competition your up against directly affects your performance. If an adult balled against some fifth graders he'd obviously do better than if he playe against other adults. If organik rap battles a fifth grader he wouldn't necessarily have a better performance than he would against like diz or something
I agree his status seems about the same but because not as much of this written era had developed yet his freestyle credentials seemed to hold more weight as he was one of the few in Canada to be around for awhile. Now that this new era has taken over all the old freestyle championship wins seem to mean less.
Do you mean cuz he's still a name that you'd associate with his peers, so the fact he has chosen not to compete in written battles (like many of them) it has taken away from his freestyle accomplishments?
Like are Juice, Supernat, Eyedea, and so forth's freestyle accomplishments considered to be just as great because written battles weren't really a regularity in their time? Or do you think their's are diminished like you feel Organik's might be?
(I'm actually asking btw, just so I understand what you mean, and not trying to sound like a dick, lol)
It was a great analogy. America has by far the best and most competitive battling scene; not to mention the home of hip-hop and battling. It also provides the most exposure.
Similar to the NBA. International players who want to prove they're the best come over here to compete and put in work in order to prove it.
Battling in a country that was not known to have much of battling scene and dominating and NEVER competing in America does not make you great. It's equivalent to being the greatest basketball player of Norway. NOBODY FUCKING CARES.
Can somebody please explain how you can battle a bunch of unknown white Canadians with similar styles and no swag; especially at that time and be considered amongst the top 50 Greatest?
We just had a thread about the lack of diversity and talent in KOTD. Don't you think it was much worse back then.
I feel like the old generation of fteestylers are starting to have less impressive legacies. I mean eyedea dominated battling for 2 years which was nuts but now illmacs been dominant in both freestyle and written battles and just shown much more diversity and talent, which makes me view eyedeas past battles differently. Organiks ranks still pretty high because he's got his freestyle legacy and proven he can compete in written battles, but at the same time it's just about as high as jack shitts who was much lower than him prior to written battles becoming so important as jack was not dominant in the freestyle circuit.
Bob, just know we had to convince Greg to include T-Rex in the book; because he was originally omitted; however Organik was in
Now you tell me who deserves to be slapped?
This has a lot of good points. And as a HUGE believer that KOTD could benefit greatly if it had more diversity I agree completely.
I am a big basketball fan, and if someone put Arvydas Sabonis or Toni Kukoc or Oscar Schmidt in the 50 greatest basketball players of all-time for they're international accomplishments, I'd be first in line to say "what the fuck?".
And I know my argument's been the same thing, but I just truly don't believe the discrepancy in talent (though still great) is AS great in battling as it has been in basketball historically. I feel like this has been proven particularly in recent years with all the crossover battles.
I guess we just disagree on that in all honesty. I'm a big "history" type guy so maybe that's why...but for me a guy like Juice's "legacy" is already cemented and great. Battling like anything changes, and you have to compare guys to their peers imo.
To be fair Rex has had like 4 battles since then lol
It's cool Greg, at least you got it right...
I still need my poster though...
i used to HATE organik in the WRC's lmaooo
always getting all angry and shit.. predicting the ends of everyline n shit.
what a spazz..
he won me over when he started KOTD and killed it vs diz, but he used to piss me off haha... his partner didnt help that.
true legend to the scene though no doubt. funny.
yes, Organik was a beast in the WRC, but you wrote it like he didn't get embarrassed horribly by diz at BOTB. There's also punctuation mistakes, you should get someone to proof read before going live.
I agree with what Organik has contributed with KOTD; his legacy is forever etched in stone for battling and RIGHTFULLY EARNED.
he had a good showing against diz (though diz did win)...and obviously it will be proof read...c'mon bruh
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